OT - City of Minneapolis

[Monster]

That's an interesting perspective, monster, and one I agree with. My personal experience in working with inner city kids, several of whom are children of illegal immigrants, is similar...they seem to be harder working and better behaved than many of their American-born peers, and I suspect one of the reasons is fear. A couple years ago I was taking a group of kids to Boston for a 3-day event. We had an organization meeting two nights before departure during which we explained the details of the trip...what to pack, where to meet, etc. The kids were supposed to meet us at the airport for departure and arrange to have someone pick them up at the airport upon return. When I asked if there were any questions, two hands went up. A young girl said "My family can't be near the airport...too much ICE." The other kid with a hand up nodded in agreement. Now, I'm in no way an "open borders" guy and generally a big fan of the work ICE does. But the fear in those kids eyes made me look at things from a different perspective. In that moment I realized President Reagan did the right thing when he granted amnesty to more illegals than any other president...over 3 million. Sure, there are examples of horrible crimes committed by illegals and I am sympathetic to the victims, but the data show illegals are far less likely to commit crimes than natural born citizens or even legal immigrants. I've wondered about the reason for this, and I think you may have come up with it, monster.

The money you make here in this country is meant to be spent here to stimulate the community that you benefit from. Many Illegals work here and send there money back home. I don't agree with that. That's not how a healthy functioning economy succeeds. Don't come here to reap the benefits only to send it out of country.

How are the illegals you are talking about making the money you are saying they send out of the country?

[Porckchop]

That's an interesting perspective, monster, and one I agree with. My personal experience in working with inner city kids, several of whom are children of illegal immigrants, is similar...they seem to be harder working and better behaved than many of their American-born peers, and I suspect one of the reasons is fear. A couple years ago I was taking a group of kids to Boston for a 3-day event. We had an organization meeting two nights before departure during which we explained the details of the trip...what to pack, where to meet, etc. The kids were supposed to meet us at the airport for departure and arrange to have someone pick them up at the airport upon return. When I asked if there were any questions, two hands went up. A young girl said "My family can't be near the airport...too much ICE." The other kid with a hand up nodded in agreement. Now, I'm in no way an "open borders" guy and generally a big fan of the work ICE does. But the fear in those kids eyes made me look at things from a different perspective. In that moment I realized President Reagan did the right thing when he granted amnesty to more illegals than any other president...over 3 million. Sure, there are examples of horrible crimes committed by illegals and I am sympathetic to the victims, but the data show illegals are far less likely to commit crimes than natural born citizens or even legal immigrants. I've wondered about the reason for this, and I think you may have come up with it, monster.

The money you make here in this country is meant to be spent here to stimulate the community that you benefit from. Many Illegals work here and send there money back home. I don't agree with that. That's not how a healthy functioning economy succeeds. Don't come here to reap the benefits only to send it out of country.

How are the illegals you are talking about making the money you are saying they send out of the country?

Construction, I work with and around them everyday. They work for 9 months out of the year then take winter off and go back home.

[TheFuture]

My entire family lives in the heart of the twin cities area. I received photos of the burning buildings from familiy's patios/balconies/decks/yards.

My family had cars broken into. My family saw crime that no cop could or would respond to.

Minneapolis screwed up when they elected a 30 some year old to run office. Then compounded it by trying to be more progressive.

[AbeVigodaLive]

That's an interesting perspective, monster, and one I agree with. My personal experience in working with inner city kids, several of whom are children of illegal immigrants, is similar...they seem to be harder working and better behaved than many of their American-born peers, and I suspect one of the reasons is fear. A couple years ago I was taking a group of kids to Boston for a 3-day event. We had an organization meeting two nights before departure during which we explained the details of the trip...what to pack, where to meet, etc. The kids were supposed to meet us at the airport for departure and arrange to have someone pick them up at the airport upon return. When I asked if there were any questions, two hands went up. A young girl said "My family can't be near the airport...too much ICE." The other kid with a hand up nodded in agreement. Now, I'm in no way an "open borders" guy and generally a big fan of the work ICE does. But the fear in those kids eyes made me look at things from a different perspective. In that moment I realized President Reagan did the right thing when he granted amnesty to more illegals than any other president...over 3 million. Sure, there are examples of horrible crimes committed by illegals and I am sympathetic to the victims, but the data show illegals are far less likely to commit crimes than natural born citizens or even legal immigrants. I've wondered about the reason for this, and I think you may have come up with it, monster.

The money you make here in this country is meant to be spent here to stimulate the community that you benefit from. Many Illegals work here and send there money back home. I don't agree with that. That's not how a healthy functioning economy succeeds. Don't come here to reap the benefits only to send it out of country.

How are the illegals you are talking about making the money you are saying they send out of the country?

Construction, I work with and around them everyday. They work for 9 months out of the year then take winter off and go back home.

Are they paid legally or illegally?

[FNG]

That's an interesting perspective, monster, and one I agree with. My personal experience in working with inner city kids, several of whom are children of illegal immigrants, is similar...they seem to be harder working and better behaved than many of their American-born peers, and I suspect one of the reasons is fear. A couple years ago I was taking a group of kids to Boston for a 3-day event. We had an organization meeting two nights before departure during which we explained the details of the trip...what to pack, where to meet, etc. The kids were supposed to meet us at the airport for departure and arrange to have someone pick them up at the airport upon return. When I asked if there were any questions, two hands went up. A young girl said "My family can't be near the airport...too much ICE." The other kid with a hand up nodded in agreement. Now, I'm in no way an "open borders" guy and generally a big fan of the work ICE does. But the fear in those kids eyes made me look at things from a different perspective. In that moment I realized President Reagan did the right thing when he granted amnesty to more illegals than any other president...over 3 million. Sure, there are examples of horrible crimes committed by illegals and I am sympathetic to the victims, but the data show illegals are far less likely to commit crimes than natural born citizens or even legal immigrants. I've wondered about the reason for this, and I think you may have come up with it, monster.

The money you make here in this country is meant to be spent here to stimulate the community that you benefit from. Many Illegals work here and send there money back home. I don't agree with that. That's not how a healthy functioning economy succeeds. Don't come here to reap the benefits only to send it out of country.

How are the illegals you are talking about making the money you are saying they send out of the country?

Construction, I work with and around them everyday. They work for 9 months out of the year then take winter off and go back home.

Are they paid legally or illegally?

I'm interested in Pork's answer, but I can tell you at least what my experience is with undocumented workers in my life. Domestic help is generally paid illegally, but those that work construction or for real companies are paid legally. I have never understood how it works, but undocumented parents of the kids I work with pay taxes...maybe a wink/wink arrangement with our government, who knows.

And Pork is correct that a lot of the money leaves the community as it goes back home to help their families. This is nothing new though. Some of my family came over from Ireland 3 generations ago, and I can tell from researching old diaries and letters they regularly sent money back to the old country to help struggling relatives. I imagine it happened with Italians, Germans, Scandinavians, etc. too...if you are making more money than you ever could back home and your family is struggling, you're going to want to help them. And it happens today with our Hispanic legal and illegal immigrants, and certainly with our legal Hmong and Somali immigrants. Sure, it would be better for our local economy if the money stayed here, but I'm guessing most of us would do the same thing if we were in their position and could help our families.

There's a narrative out there that illegals are taking jobs away from our citizens, but that hasn't been what I have observed. Illegals don't seem to have the same sense of entitlement that so many of us natural-born Americans have, and are willing to do the jobs we simply won't do. Take a drive through agricultural California or park outside meat-packing plants in Minnesota and see who is doing that work that most of us would consider unpleasant. It's a necessary arrangement for our economy that has always been present.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Immigrants are the lifeblood to this country's vibrancy and continued growth. It's a shame that our politicians can't figure this out and give a little on both sides of the issue and then figure out a way to significantly lift the cap of LEGAL immigrants, both seasonal and permanent.

We are already seeing a labor shortage in some industries (my company is having a hard time staffing its domestic factories). Reforming legal immigration and allowing more of them would absolutely be a net positive to the economy.

[TheGrey08]

My entire family lives in the heart of the twin cities area. I received photos of the burning buildings from familiy's patios/balconies/decks/yards.

My family had cars broken into. My family saw crime that no cop could or would respond to.

Minneapolis screwed up when they elected a 30 some year old to run office. Then compounded it by trying to be more progressive.

This would still be happening either way. Car break-ins and other similar crimes shot way up during/from the pandemic, not because of who is running the city.

Police reform is major major issue across the country (and criminal justice reform). Part of it is racial for sure, but so is police militarization, poor/lack of training, the blue code of silence, police mental health, etc.

From the stats I've seen, they kill more people here than most other countries in the world. We imprison more than most countries as well. Do we have more criminals than all these other countries? No, we have bad laws and a bad police system and major problems in the criminal justice system. They reward cops who keep their mouth shut (blue code) and don't reward/praise the good/great cops enough.

I don't agree with the looting and destruction (much of it is done by opportunists not from anywhere near the community), but there's a reason people are pissed, marching in the streets and shouting their pain, anger and frustration. It's way past time the government and society in general starts listening. Shit needs to change.

[TheGrey08]

The money you make here in this country is meant to be spent here to stimulate the community that you benefit from. Many Illegals work here and send there money back home. I don't agree with that. That's not how a healthy functioning economy succeeds. Don't come here to reap the benefits only to send it out of country.

Do you have a problem with millionaires, billionaires and corporations taking American money out of the country as well?

[TheGrey08]

Monster, FNG and Q, good points and insight on immigration. It's the biggest reason our country has succeeded as well as it has. Afterall it was literally established and built from it. People seem to forget that. Illegal immigrants get a bad wrap in general when they really have far more positive impact than negative.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Monster, FNG and Q, good points and insight on immigration. It's the biggest reason our country has succeeded as well as it has. Afterall it was literally established and built from it. People seem to forget that. Illegal immigrants get a bad wrap in general when they really have far more positive impact than negative.

But there will never be a longer-term, durable solution unless more democrats take illegal immigration seriously and acknowledge that it is a big concern for a significant portion of voters and indeed a legitimate problem. We are ruled by laws and they should be followed and enforced.

By the same token, more republicans need to stop with the nativist mindset when this country was built on immigrants and its become obvious that there is a labor shortage in both high-skill and low-skill areas that people from other countries can help fill. It's actually un-American in my opinion to restrict legal channels of immigration.

The solution to me is to reform and expand legal immigration in a big way while at the same time cracking down on illegal immigration. It's possible to do both at once but unfortunately the loudest voices seem to dominate one extreme or the other.