Butler out against Portland

[kekgeek]

How does he not pick up bad habits off the bench but does starting? I think i am in the phase time to develop while you are leaning towards trying to make the playoffs. If we kept butler i would agree but him sitting every other game isnt going to help that.

If he is starting and Wiggins isn't, he will be asked to carry more of the offensive load. He is not ready for that. Right now he is a good energy role player. Let him continue to excel at that. Let him become great at his current role and be can expand his game in the offseason and hopefully he the skills he learns this year in his current role can excel him to a damn good player

[kekgeek]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with Wiggins tonight. He actually got quite a few worthwhile looks at the basket and had 3 steals. I'm not suggesting the guy was awesome but he gave effort too. It doesn't have to be Wiggins or Okogie both can get plenty of minutes relatively speaking.

The thing what is annoying me about Wiggins is what made him better as an offensive player early in his career was he was damn good in the post, had a killer step back and got to the line at a rate of top 10 in the league.

Those parts of his game have either disappeared or massively diminished. That needs to change

[Monster]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with Wiggins tonight. He actually got quite a few worthwhile looks at the basket and had 3 steals. I'm not suggesting the guy was awesome but he gave effort too. It doesn't have to be Wiggins or Okogie both can get plenty of minutes relatively speaking.

The thing what is annoying me about Wiggins is what made him better as an offensive player early in his career was he was damn good in the post, had a killer step back and got to the line at a rate of top 10 in the league.

Those parts of his game have either disappeared or massively diminished. That needs to change

Wiggins is probably better now in the post because he can beat you better like a true big would and he can get deeper than he used to as well. I agree that it seems like that part of his game could be utilized more. He was making pretty good plays with the ball at times making the defense committ and then passing out. The other day I watched his rookie year highlights...it sadly didn't seem like there has been much progress. I sure hope Okogie makes more marked improvements because regardless of what can be said of Wiggins now...what he was doing as a rookie back then was actually pretty impressive. Offensively what I want to see out of Wiggins is him progress to being able to be a knock down 3 point shooter. Even if it's just catch and shoot 3 point shooting that would be really something but if he ever is able to knock down 3's off the dribble...that would change everything. I'm not holding my breath but that's we need from him (offensively) if we want to be a really good team going forward.

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

I honestly didn't have much of a problem with Wiggins tonight. He actually got quite a few worthwhile looks at the basket and had 3 steals. I'm not suggesting the guy was awesome but he gave effort too. It doesn't have to be Wiggins or Okogie both can get plenty of minutes relatively speaking.

The thing what is annoying me about Wiggins is what made him better as an offensive player early in his career was he was damn good in the post, had a killer step back and got to the line at a rate of top 10 in the league.

Those parts of his game have either disappeared or massively diminished. That needs to change

Thibs' offense is part of the reason.

Even Kat is starting his offense further out.

Dont know why people are arguing about Okogie vs Wiggins. Both are starting with jimmy on his way out. We simply didnt have enough firepower tonight.

People are crapping on wiggins, but KAT getting in foul trouble hurt team early. The Blazer basically had 1 guy on KAT or Wiggs, with everyone else leaving every other wolf to help.

Tyus cant create his offense.
As much as we all love Okogies energy, he isnt someone other teams worry about yet.
And TAJ was basically left alone all night.

Then without Rose, we had no one that can come off the bench to relieve any of that pressure off of KAT and Wiggins.

Thibs' offense is heavily reliant on iso from outside in. And when we dont have those type of players, the offense looks like what it did tonight.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

We were outrebounded last night 66-38...that is unacceptable and indicates a team not putting in the effort. Our starting wings had 4 combined and Towns had 5. I know people hate Butler and I'm pissed about him skipping games too, but at least our guys don't just go through the motions when he is on the court. This team needs someone other than Butler who will be a warrior every night...otherwise it's going to be a long season.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Wig and KAT continue to demonstrate they can't win without Butler or a heroic effort by some other former Bull (i.e. Rose). Kinda embarrassing for the two former #1 picks on max deals.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

We were outrebounded last night 66-38...that is unacceptable and indicates a team not putting in the effort. Our starting wings had 4 combined and Towns had 5. I know people hate Butler and I'm pissed about him skipping games too, but at least our guys don't just go through the motions when he is on the court. This team needs someone other than Butler who will be a warrior every night...otherwise it's going to be a long season.

They ultimately need to replace Taj with a bigger, stronger space eater that can start at Center and play 25-30 MPG. The hard part is finding someone like that who can also hold their own on defensive switches against guards and not be a total zero on offense.

[Lipoli390]

Wig and KAT continue to demonstrate they can't win without Butler or a heroic effort by some other former Bull (i.e. Rose). Kinda embarrassing for the two former #1 picks on max deals.

I would like to see KAT and Wiggins play under a really good head coach before drawing any final conclusions. But I agree it's troubling. All the more reason to push the reset button. That means tanking this season to take advantage of next summer's draft and getting young talent with upside along with draft picks in exchange for Butler. I don't know what the story is with KAT this season. I've never seen him so inconsistent, especially as a rebounder. On the other hand, his rim protection and overall defense have shown noticeable improvement so far this season.

As I see it, this team needs to build around KAT and Okogie. Still no telling how good Okogie will be, but he definitely has the makings of a really good, perhaps great, player. We're already seen what KAT can do offensively and as a rebounding on a highly consistent basis in 3 seasons before this one. We need to keep amassing young talent and picks until we hit paydirt with another allstar talent.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

We were outrebounded last night 66-38...that is unacceptable and indicates a team not putting in the effort. Our starting wings had 4 combined and Towns had 5. I know people hate Butler and I'm pissed about him skipping games too, but at least our guys don't just go through the motions when he is on the court. This team needs someone other than Butler who will be a warrior every night...otherwise it's going to be a long season.

They ultimately need to replace Taj with a bigger, stronger space eater that can start at Center and play 25-30 MPG. The hard part is finding someone like that who can also hold their own on defensive switches against guards and not be a total zero on offense.

I agree, Q...eventually. But in fairness to Taj, he had 8 rebounds in 25 minutes and was our only hope on the boards last night. I didn't see the game, but the box score is quite depressing...gives the impression of a team that has already packed it in for the season, and that's not what I saw in the 2 impressive home games last week.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Wig and KAT continue to demonstrate they can't win without Butler or a heroic effort by some other former Bull (i.e. Rose). Kinda embarrassing for the two former #1 picks on max deals.

I would like to see KAT and Wiggins play under a really good head coach before drawing any final conclusions. But I agree it's troubling. All the more reason to push the reset button. That means tanking this season to take advantage of next summer's draft and getting young talent with upside along with draft picks in exchange for Butler. I don't know what the story is with KAT this season. I've never seen him so inconsistent, especially as a rebounder. On the other hand, his rim protection and overall defense have shown noticeable improvement so far this season.

As I see it, this team needs to build around KAT and Okogie. Still no telling how good Okogie will be, but he definitely has the makings of a really good, perhaps great, player. We're already seen what KAT can do offensively and as a rebounding on a highly consistent basis in 3 seasons before this one. We need to keep amassing young talent and picks until we hit paydirt with another allstar talent.

I wouldn't put Okogie in the "build around" category, but yeah, anyone on a rookie deal that has some upside is a good thing. We'll see if his shooting/shot creation skills come around.