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Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:17 pm
by kekgeek
CoolBreeze44 wrote:Having Wig AND Butler is best end result. I think we could all agree on that.
The thing is I agree but damn we would be a terrible 3 pt shooting team like the Bulls were this year
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:18 pm
by AbeVigodaLive
thedoper wrote:I'd give everyone on our roster and our draft pick except for KAT and Wiggins. This gives us the core we need. Swapping Wiggins for Butler makes us barely better.
Next year? Or long term?
I would disagree vehemently if we're talking about short-term improvement.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:30 pm
by thedoper
AbeVigodaLive wrote:thedoper wrote:I'd give everyone on our roster and our draft pick except for KAT and Wiggins. This gives us the core we need. Swapping Wiggins for Butler makes us barely better.
Next year? Or long term?
I would disagree vehemently if we're talking about short-term improvement.
Wiggins for Butler guarantees us the 7-8 seed in the West. That's still no man's land. That's what I mean by barely better. We're still left with huge holes in the rest of our starting 5 by going from Wiggins to Butler.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:31 pm
by TheFuture
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:Unlike Lip, I actually did openly advocate trading Wiggins, so focus the criticism/dismissals on me. But actually don't, because I'm saying I'd trade him for Jimmy Butler, not Raef LaFrentz and a $50 gift certificate to TGI Friday's.
Advocating Wiggins for Butler is not insane and shouldn't be dismissed.
Wiggins is a great scorer, he's super athletic, and he's younger than Butler so his game should continue to improve. It's not crazy to think he could be a 28-30 point per game scorer someday. These are all good reasons to favor Wiggins.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/3059319/andrew-wiggins
At the same time, Butler is already an All-Star who plays two ways. He's bigger and stronger than Wiggins and a much better defender (Wiggins' lack of development defensively worries me). Butler's a better rebounder, passer, and ball-handler. He's still improving, despite his age. He has shown some questionable behavior, but he has a history of success on the court with Thibs. These are all legit reasons to favor Butler.
http://www.espn.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/6430/jimmy-butler
I'd rather have Butler, but reasonable people could disagree.
The biggest issue that many here fail to address is the length that we can retain these players alongside KAT. Wiggins we can guarantee 5 years of, Butler is guaranteed for 2. I don't think it's realistic to expect Butler to sign a lengthy max to a losing franchise in Minnesota when he is 30 years old. Sure, we may be in the playoff hunt as soon as next year, but I don't believe we're realistically competing for a title until KAT is around 26 years old and LeBron(old age) and GSW (cannot afford that team forever) are fading.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:32 pm
by Coolbreeze44
AbeVigodaLive wrote:thedoper wrote:I'd give everyone on our roster and our draft pick except for KAT and Wiggins. This gives us the core we need. Swapping Wiggins for Butler makes us barely better.
Next year? Or long term?
I would disagree vehemently if we're talking about short-term improvement.
One guy plays 82, the other averages less than 70. Does that factor in at all?
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:43 pm
by kekgeek
CoolBreeze44 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:thedoper wrote:I'd give everyone on our roster and our draft pick except for KAT and Wiggins. This gives us the core we need. Swapping Wiggins for Butler makes us barely better.
Next year? Or long term?
I would disagree vehemently if we're talking about short-term improvement.
One guy plays 82, the other averages less than 70. Does that factor in at all?
Cool who would you want for next year only Wig or butler.
I don't make the trade but butler is an all nba while wiggins at this point of his career is a not an all star yet (not saying that is a bad thing at all). Butler would improve our team a ton for the short term
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:51 pm
by Coolbreeze44
kekgeek1 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:thedoper wrote:I'd give everyone on our roster and our draft pick except for KAT and Wiggins. This gives us the core we need. Swapping Wiggins for Butler makes us barely better.
Next year? Or long term?
I would disagree vehemently if we're talking about short-term improvement.
One guy plays 82, the other averages less than 70. Does that factor in at all?
Cool who would you want for next year only Wig or butler.
I don't make the trade but butler is an all nba while wiggins at this point of his career is a not an all star yet (not saying that is a bad thing at all). Butler would improve our team a ton for the short term
For next season I would take Butler, but ask me again after next year is over.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:04 pm
by Lipoli390
Swapping Butler for Wiggins would definitely make us better in the short term. But I'm still taking a long view and for that reason I wouldn't do the deal. As I've said, I'd be open to trading Wiggins. But I have yet to come up with a realistic deal that I'd find acceptable. The deal I'd do -- Wiggins for Giannis -- is a deal the Bucks would never do. I find Wiggins both enticing and frustrating. Incredible talent, but something seems to be missing from his makeup. Then again, he just turned 22 so I can't completely dismiss the possibility that he becomes more than a scorer and more of a fighter. After all, Ricky significantly improved his shooting at age 26.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 11:06 pm
by Lipoli390
Swapping Butler for Wiggins would definitely make us better in the short term. But I'm still taking a long view and for that reason I wouldn't do the deal. As I've said, I'd be open to trading Wiggins. But I have yet to come up with a realistic deal that I'd find acceptable. The deal I'd do -- Wiggins for Giannis -- is a deal the Bucks would never do. I find Wiggins both enticing and frustrating. Incredible talent, but something seems to be missing from his makeup. Then again, he just turned 22 so I can't completely dismiss the possibility that he becomes more than a scorer and more of a fighter. After all, Ricky significantly improved his shooting at age 26.
Re: And That's A Wrap - Wolves @ Rockets GDT
Posted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 5:55 am
by thedoper
At least this year has quieted the Wiggins for Jae Crowder talk.