Minnesota Sports Forum

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Carlos Danger wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Where is Towns development of passing out of double teams?

Where is Wiggins being forced to initiate the offense more?

Where is Belly's improved play before he went down?

Where is Rubio's developing ability to keep defenses honest for the first time in his career after Thibs got on him over and over?

Where is the mention of the Wolves playing best defense in the NBA for over a month?

BloopOracle wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Where is Towns development of passing out of double teams?

Where is Wiggins being forced to initiate the offense more?

Where is Belly's improved play before he went down?

Where is Rubio's developing ability to keep defenses honest for the first time in his career after Thibs got on him over and over?

Where is the mention of the Wolves playing best defense in the NBA for over a month?

Right here:





.

Wolves failures? Coach or players?
Wolves successes/improvements? Coach or players?

We seem to collectively put on our GM/owner hats around here quite a bit. It's easier. Blame the coach first... otherwise it's too depressing to realize the future of this franchise.

- 12 coaches over 28 years.
- Saunders had 8 playoff runs in 11 seasons.
- That leaves 11 coaches for 17 below .500 seasons.
- Do the Wolves simply have super terrible luck choosing head coaches or something?

This is not to absolve Thibodeau in a disappointing season. There should be a significant amount of concern about him. But I just don't know why the players repeatedly get a free pass. We have the "next Tim Duncan and Paul George" on this team (both played every game). We had Ricky Rubio play the best ball of his career while playing every night the 2nd half of the season (most here consider him a better than average starter)...

And they finished behind a Sacramento team that traded its best player (making rookie Buddy Hield the team's best player for the final 24 games) and behind a Dallas team with Harrison Barnes as its best player.

ELITE players win. Whether it's with Popovich on the sideline or Dwayne Casey, Avery Johnson, David Blatt, et al. Being young is an excuse not to win and make the playoffs. It's not an excuse to finish behind a team led by rookie Buddy Hield in the standings.

BloopOracle wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Where is Towns development of passing out of double teams?

Where is Wiggins being forced to initiate the offense more?

Where is Belly's improved play before he went down?

Where is Rubio's developing ability to keep defenses honest for the first time in his career after Thibs got on him over and over?

Where is the mention of the Wolves playing best defense in the NBA for over a month?

Good discussion here about Thibs. I clearly side with the guys who think he had a bad year...I didn't love the hire, and he even fell short of my expectations. But I will give him credit for a few things:

1) the emergence of Ricky Rubio
2) Belly becoming closer to the player he was in Europe
3) Some improvement in Bazz's defense, although I didn't like Thibs moving away from him the last quarter of the year.
4) Better media relations than Sam

But these minor accomplishments were far overshadowed by a plethora of bad decisions. He will be back next for sure, but I don't see this team changing much unless Thibs changes first.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Wolves failures? Coach or players?
Wolves successes/improvements? Coach or players?

We seem to collectively put on our GM/owner hats around here quite a bit. It's easier. Blame the coach first... otherwise it's too depressing to realize the future of this franchise.

- 12 coaches over 28 years.
- Saunders had 8 playoff runs in 11 seasons.
- That leaves 11 coaches for 17 below .500 seasons.
- Do the Wolves simply have super terrible luck choosing head coaches or something?

This is not to absolve Thibodeau in a disappointing season. There should be a significant amount of concern about him. But I just don't know why the players repeatedly get a free pass. We have the "next Tim Duncan and Paul George" on this team (both played every game). We had Ricky Rubio play the best ball of his career while playing every night the 2nd half of the season (most here consider him a better than average starter)...

And they finished behind a Sacramento team that traded its best player (making rookie Buddy Hield the team's best player for the final 24 games) and behind a Dallas team with Harrison Barnes as its best player.

ELITE players win. Whether it's with Popovich on the sideline or Dwayne Casey, Avery Johnson, David Blatt, et al. Being young is an excuse not to win and make the playoffs. It's not an excuse to finish behind a team led by rookie Buddy Hield in the standings.

Well said.

I can't decide if those stats on the coaching we've had is nauseating or hilarious.
Our only highlight of a coach comes back for three seasons and steers the ship in the right direction. Then unfortunately he passes away.
Our track record doesn't paint a pretty picture for the future.

Abe -- Absolutely right that there is no excuse for finishing behind the Kings. I'd add the Mavs to that list. Of course, no excuse for losing to the Lakers the other night. The list goes on. And I agree that players can't can't a free pass.

Last night was one of many examples of Towns simply not defending. I still don't know if its lack of effort or cluelessness. But it's incredibly frustrating and inexcusable. Last night was the bad Wiggins -- settling for jumpers when he should have attacked, missing half his free throws, shooting 30% from the field and taking plays off. In one instance, instead of sprinting down the floor to get back on defense, he actually skipped for about 5-10 seconds. In another instance, he literally pranced down the court while his teammates all sprinted by him to get back on defense. That prompted my wife to turn to me and ask me seriously if I thought he smoked weed before they game. At times he looked like a kid the last day of school who hates his teacher and was just going through the motions while waiting for the last class to end at the end of a miserable school year.

So yes, our players should be held accountable. Perhaps, as you suggest, our young core guys aren't as good as we've thought they are. But Wolves fans aren't the only ones who have had high regard for their talent. The high regard for their talent spans coaches, GMs and respected NBA analysts around the country. Yes, we're going to finish behind the Kings in the standings, but I'm certain the Kings would gladly trade any one or more of their players for KAT, Wiggins, LaVine or Gorgui.

Sam had this same young core playing .500 ball to close out last season. Those same players should have improved this season individually and collectively. We saw some improvement individually, but the team did not improve collectively. The buck has to stop somewhere and, for an NBA franchise, the buck stops with the head coach and President of Basketball Operations. In this case, that's Thibs.

lipoli390 wrote:Abe -- Absolutely right that there is no excuse for finishing behind the Kings. I'd add the Mavs to that list. Of course, no excuse for losing to the Lakers the other night. The list goes on. And I agree that players can't can't a free pass.

Last night was one of many examples of Towns simply not defending. I still don't know if its lack of effort or cluelessness. But it's incredibly frustrating and inexcusable. Last night was the bad Wiggins -- settling for jumpers when he should have attacked, missing half his free throws, shooting 30% from the field and taking plays off. In one instance, instead of sprinting down the floor to get back on defense, he actually skipped for about 5-10 seconds. In another instance, he literally pranced down the court while his teammates all sprinted by him to get back on defense. That prompted my wife to turn to me and ask me seriously if I thought he smoked weed before they game. At times he looked like a kid the last day of school who hates his teacher and was just going through the motions while waiting for the last class to end at the end of a miserable school year.

So yes, our players should be held accountable. Perhaps, as you suggest, our young core guys aren't as good as we've thought they are. But Wolves fans aren't the only ones who have had high regard for their talent. The high regard for their talent spans coaches, GMs and respected NBA analysts around the country. Yes, we're going to finish behind the Kings in the standings, but I'm certain the Kings would gladly trade any one or more of their players for KAT, Wiggins, LaVine or Gorgui.

Sam had this same young core playing .500 ball to close out last season. Those same players should have improved this season individually and collectively. We saw some improvement individually, but the team did not improve collectively. The buck has to stop somewhere and, for an NBA franchise, the buck stops with the head coach and President of Basketball Operations. In this case, that's Thibs.

To be fair, as has been pointed out repeatedly by geek and others... last season's finish has a ton of disclaimers in it (7 wins where the top players weren't playing...) I simply don't think I can squint that hard to consider that significant enough...






Although... at least they didn't blow leads vs. a team desperate to tank TWICE and lose to a team like OKC with nothing to play for... without its best player... and veteran starter... and best outside shooter... and...

So yeah, there's that. And I get that Thibs should get some legit criticism. I just feel compelled to remind people when it sways too far on that side that it's still about the players.

BloopOracle wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Where is Towns development of passing out of double teams?

Where is Wiggins being forced to initiate the offense more?

Where is Belly's improved play before he went down?

Where is Rubio's developing ability to keep defenses honest for the first time in his career after Thibs got on him over and over?

Where is the mention of the Wolves playing best defense in the NBA for over a month?

Bloop - These are all good points and reason for hope. I'm disappointed in this team and in Thibs as both head coach and PBO. However, I'm not ready to call on Glen to fire him. Let's see what he and Layden do to improve our sorry bench this summer. And let's see how things come together at the start of next season after the players have a chance this summer to fully digest and further develop what they've learned this season. So I'm unhappy and disappointed, but I'm not ready to give up on these players or the head coach. Nevertheless, the head coach and PBO needs to be held accountable for finishing behind the Kings and Mavs with a 31-win season.

longstrangetrip wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:

BloopOracle wrote:
Yeah thats a bunch of crap to think we accomplished nothing. Thibs forced our core players to put everything on their backs, they both grew up quite a bit. Just because our shit supporting cast let them down doesn't mean the players that for sure will be here didn't grow. Claiming we accomplished nothing and that it was a wasted season is what sounds delusional to me. But hey I guess we could hire our 4th coach in 4 years and act shocked once again that they couldn't instantly make the Wolves a winner.

The following is a list of all of Thibs accomplishments after year one:






.

Where is Towns development of passing out of double teams?

Where is Wiggins being forced to initiate the offense more?

Where is Belly's improved play before he went down?

Where is Rubio's developing ability to keep defenses honest for the first time in his career after Thibs got on him over and over?

Where is the mention of the Wolves playing best defense in the NBA for over a month?

Good discussion here about Thibs. I clearly side with the guys who think he had a bad year...I didn't love the hire, and he even fell short of my expectations. But I will give him credit for a few things:

1) the emergence of Ricky Rubio
2) Belly becoming closer to the player he was in Europe
3) Some improvement in Bazz's defense, although I didn't like Thibs moving away from him the last quarter of the year.
4) Better media relations than Sam

But these minor accomplishments were far overshadowed by a plethora of bad decisions. He will be back next for sure, but I don't see this team changing much unless Thibs changes first.

I wasn't a huge fan of Thibs either. I warmed up to the idea of him coaching here (no choice in the matter), have defended him, but I do have my questions about his style.

I have no doubt that he is excellent at his craft. A true X's and O's guy. Beyond his craft, he doesn't strike me as a compatible person. No wife, no kids, movies by himself. Basketball is everything. I see zero charisma from him. I can picture Popovich, Stevens, Spoelstra, (Even Sam Mitchell) etc. being able to go to dinner with their respective players and forgetting about basketball for that moment - creating a family aspect. I cannot envision that with Thibs. 100% basketball all the time. Viewing his players as puzzle pieces only. That is why I think he wore out his welcome in Chicago with previous players. "Great coach, but far too serious" is what you see in many quotes from Rose, Noah, etc.

His approach to the game, and life, are perfect for a team of 28-34 year old veterans who's big goal is a championship. Guy's that have a family, know their role in the game and their own life. I do question if his approach is the correct style for a core of 19-23 year old kids who still are carving out their roles in the game and in life.