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Re: Rubio having a career year statistically
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:19 am
by AbeVigodaLive
Q12543 wrote:RPM is meant to be a more refined version of the +/- stat. Like all +/- stats, there is noise in it. I don't think anyone should look at this stat as a declarative statement on a player's overall impact. It is a data point though and one that is directionally correct in most instances.
Is Bazz the worst defender in the league? Probably not. But is he a really poor defender? Hell yes!
Is Rubio the 5th best PG in the league? Nope. But are we a team that is way more competitive when he's on the floor? Hell yes!
The stat also says that Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, and Russell Westbrook are the best players in the league. It has Bogan Bogdanovic and Norris Cole as the two worst players in the league. That doesn't seem so outlandish to me.
Any stat has its flaws and I would argue that RPM is no less flawed than other "advanced" stats. If I looked at Win Shares/48, Andrew Wiggins would be Minnesota's 8th best player. Does anyone believe that to be true? If I looked at PER, Tayshaun Prince would be our 2nd to worst player, just behind Rudez. Does anyone believe that to be true?
RPM should never be cited as a sole criteria in judging a player, just like none of these other stats should be.
Do you think Wiggins is the 5th worst defender in the NBA?
But my last reply goes beyond just RPM. There are so many stats out there now... that anybody could go through them all and pick and choose the ones to fit their narrative. All the while... dismissing the ones used to judge players for the past 60 years more and more.
I think basketball has A LOT more noise than baseball. I dread the day that we judge basketball players solely on spreadsheets. It's a disservice to the players, game... and fun.
Re: Rubio having a career year statistically
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:38 am
by Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:RPM is meant to be a more refined version of the +/- stat. Like all +/- stats, there is noise in it. I don't think anyone should look at this stat as a declarative statement on a player's overall impact. It is a data point though and one that is directionally correct in most instances.
Is Bazz the worst defender in the league? Probably not. But is he a really poor defender? Hell yes!
Is Rubio the 5th best PG in the league? Nope. But are we a team that is way more competitive when he's on the floor? Hell yes!
The stat also says that Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, and Russell Westbrook are the best players in the league. It has Bogan Bogdanovic and Norris Cole as the two worst players in the league. That doesn't seem so outlandish to me.
Any stat has its flaws and I would argue that RPM is no less flawed than other "advanced" stats. If I looked at Win Shares/48, Andrew Wiggins would be Minnesota's 8th best player. Does anyone believe that to be true? If I looked at PER, Tayshaun Prince would be our 2nd to worst player, just behind Rudez. Does anyone believe that to be true?
RPM should never be cited as a sole criteria in judging a player, just like none of these other stats should be.
Do you think Wiggins is the 5th worst defender in the NBA?
But my last reply goes beyond just RPM. There are so many stats out there now... that anybody could go through them all and pick and choose the ones to fit their narrative. All the while... dismissing the ones used to judge players for the past 60 years more and more.
I think basketball has A LOT more noise than baseball. I dread the day that we judge basketball players solely on spreadsheets. It's a disservice to the players, game... and fun.
I don't think Wiggins is the 5th worst defender in the NBA. But you are cherry-picking the data that doesn't quite make sense to you to invalidate the entire stat. Joining him at the bottom are the likes of Shabazz, Nick Young, Jamaal Crawford. None of those surprise me. Now go look at the top of the list. None of those names surprise me either.
Basketball has too much interaction between variables to ever be like baseball.
Re: Rubio having a career year statistically
Posted: Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:44 am
by AbeVigodaLive
Q12543 wrote:AbeVigodaLive wrote:Q12543 wrote:RPM is meant to be a more refined version of the +/- stat. Like all +/- stats, there is noise in it. I don't think anyone should look at this stat as a declarative statement on a player's overall impact. It is a data point though and one that is directionally correct in most instances.
Is Bazz the worst defender in the league? Probably not. But is he a really poor defender? Hell yes!
Is Rubio the 5th best PG in the league? Nope. But are we a team that is way more competitive when he's on the floor? Hell yes!
The stat also says that Steph Curry, Kawhi Leonard, LeBron James, and Russell Westbrook are the best players in the league. It has Bogan Bogdanovic and Norris Cole as the two worst players in the league. That doesn't seem so outlandish to me.
Any stat has its flaws and I would argue that RPM is no less flawed than other "advanced" stats. If I looked at Win Shares/48, Andrew Wiggins would be Minnesota's 8th best player. Does anyone believe that to be true? If I looked at PER, Tayshaun Prince would be our 2nd to worst player, just behind Rudez. Does anyone believe that to be true?
RPM should never be cited as a sole criteria in judging a player, just like none of these other stats should be.
Do you think Wiggins is the 5th worst defender in the NBA?
But my last reply goes beyond just RPM. There are so many stats out there now... that anybody could go through them all and pick and choose the ones to fit their narrative. All the while... dismissing the ones used to judge players for the past 60 years more and more.
I think basketball has A LOT more noise than baseball. I dread the day that we judge basketball players solely on spreadsheets. It's a disservice to the players, game... and fun.
I don't think Wiggins is the 5th worst defender in the NBA. But you are cherry-picking the data that doesn't quite make sense to you to invalidate the entire stat. Joining him at the bottom are the likes of Shabazz, Nick Young, Jamaal Crawford. None of those surprise me. Now go look at the top of the list. None of those names surprise me either.
Basketball has too much interaction between variables to ever be like baseball.
Your last sentence:
I know that. And you know that. But there's a very real push to downplay so many of those variables that make basketball so unique and so much fun amid a groundswell of advanced stats.
As I said, there are so many of them already that you can pick and choose which ones you want to use and make a very real argument about almost anything. For example, "Wiggins is one of the 5 worst defenders in the NBA. Here's my proof!"
I know clear-minded folks know that there is no true stat that reveals everything and that we use stats collectively ALONG with the eye test to judge players accurately. But when more and more stats (and more and more cherry-picking data/exceptions/anomalies become available)... it can become a mess.