Minnesota Sports Forum

Instantly, I thought of Shaun Livingston. Granted, it's an entirely different sport, but there similarities.

Both guys tore pretty much everything along with a dislocated kneecap. Both guys were promising youngsters with big expectations.

Livingston was injured on 2/26/2007. He was allowed to resume playing basketball about 16 months later on 6/17/2008. He played 12 games that first season. He played 36 games the next season. Only several years later did he return to be a viable NBA player. And that was as a different type of player.

I know football is different than hoops. And I know people are different. And severities of injuries are different. But I also know that there are no guarantees... especially in football. Despite whatever the team says now about backing Bridgewater and loving him and hoping for his recovery and standing by him... he'll be cut or at least dismissed quickly if he's not up to par. That's the way the gladiator-esque sport everybody loves operates.


[Note: I have lost most of my enthusiasm for football over the years for various reasons. But I really dug Bridgewater for some reason. I hope he recovers and realizes his potential. But I don't think anybody knows if that's going to happen or not right now... and that's why the Vikings can't really count on it happening.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Instantly, I thought of Shaun Livingston. Granted, it's an entirely different sport, but there similarities.

Both guys tore pretty much everything along with a dislocated kneecap. Both guys were promising youngsters with big expectations.

Livingston was injured on 2/26/2007. He was allowed to resume playing basketball about 16 months later on 6/17/2008. He played 12 games that first season. He played 36 games the next season. Only several years later did he return to be a viable NBA player. And that was as a different type of player.

I know football is different than hoops. And I know people are different. And severities of injuries are different. But I also know that there are no guarantees... especially in football. Despite whatever the team says now about backing Bridgewater and loving him and hoping for his recovery and standing by him... he'll be cut or at least dismissed quickly if he's not up to par. That's the way the gladiator-esque sport everybody loves operates.


[Note: I have lost most of my enthusiasm for football over the years for various reasons. But I really dug Bridgewater for some reason. I hope he recovers and realizes his potential. But I don't think anybody knows if that's going to happen or not right now... and that's why the Vikings can't really count on it happening.]

Agreed Abe . You have to plan for the worst and hope for the best. Or people get fired.

TheSP wrote:

PorkChop wrote:I realize it was in the heat of the moment but when the players are cussing and throwing their helmets around its a real indictment on what they think the teams chances are with Hill at the helm.

From what I've read it was a visceral reaction to seeing the injury. A lot of us don't have the stomach to view a person's lower leg flopping around looser than a pool noodle! From what I've read quite a few players lost their lunch. I think the cussing and throwing of helmets had little to do with Hill at that time.

Yeah, we don't know exactly what the players were thinking as they were throwing around expletives and helmets while vomiting, but I don't think they were processing the impact on the season at all...as SP said, it had to be more visceral than that. I think their immediate thoughts were:

-Ugh, that's the most gruesome thing I have ever seen up close, and

-this is a brutal game, and the same thing could easily happen to me

The Shaun Hill and season implications came later.

I personally think we have a good long Super Bowl window, I still want to trade for someone like McCarron from Cincy but we are built to last, we are going to lose a couple years where our Defense is still mostly on rookie contracts but I have faith we will lock up the core defense. If Teddy doesn't make it back until the opener 2 years from now I believe we will still be a playoff team. Doesn't hurt by the way that Teddy himself is on a rookie contract so we still have a ton of cap to stay competitive

Who was the last team with an extended Super Bowl window without a franchise QB?

Potential Hall of Fame quarterbacks named Tom Brady, Manning (Peyton or Eli), Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton led 11 of the last 13 Super Bowl-winning teams.

Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson led the other two--both of whom could also be considered franchise quarterbacks. Flacco is the only signal-caller from the last decade who has won a Super Bowl despite not having a Pro Bowl on his resume. But the former first-round pick threw 11 touchdown passes and zero interceptions and posted a 117.2 passer rating during his playoff run with the Baltimore Ravens in 2012.

Aside from that, you'd have to go back nearly 30 years to the 1987 Washington Redskins in order to find a Super Bowl-winning quarterback who never made a Pro Bowl (Doug Williams). Even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer, both of whom won titles early this century as caretakers on defensive juggernauts, were considered strong players for long stretches during their careers.

[Note: For what it's worth... Johnson's Bucs, Flacco's Ravens and Williams' Redskins failed to be above .500 the very next season. Dilfer's Ravens were below .500 within 2 seasons.]

I think the Seahawks are a great example of an extended Super Bowl window and in my opinion it's because their QB was on his rookie contract. I see us very similar to the Seahawks in that we have a ton of young talent of defense we can lock up because we aren't paying our QB like virtually every other NFL team.

If Teddy was already on his 2nd contract which seems to be an auto 15+ million a year for even average QB play we would be screwed because we would have no room to pay all of our defensive stars. Basically I view Teddy on his rookie contract as silver lining in all of this.

I'm also impressed with how we have been drafting and developing talent, if we continue on mid round picks like we have been we will be in good shape to replace players like captain munnerlyn and Robsion with picks like Mack Alexander and Danielle Hunter.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Who was the last team with an extended Super Bowl window without a franchise QB?

Potential Hall of Fame quarterbacks named Tom Brady, Manning (Peyton or Eli), Ben Roethlisberger, Drew Brees, Aaron Rodgers and Cam Newton led 11 of the last 13 Super Bowl-winning teams.

Joe Flacco and Russell Wilson led the other two--both of whom could also be considered franchise quarterbacks. Flacco is the only signal-caller from the last decade who has won a Super Bowl despite not having a Pro Bowl on his resume. But the former first-round pick threw 11 touchdown passes and zero interceptions and posted a 117.2 passer rating during his playoff run with the Baltimore Ravens in 2012.

Aside from that, you'd have to go back nearly 30 years to the 1987 Washington Redskins in order to find a Super Bowl-winning quarterback who never made a Pro Bowl (Doug Williams). Even Brad Johnson and Trent Dilfer, both of whom won titles early this century as caretakers on defensive juggernauts, were considered strong players for long stretches during their careers.

[Note: For what it's worth... Johnson's Bucs, Flacco's Ravens and Williams' Redskins failed to be above .500 the very next season. Dilfer's Ravens were below .500 within 2 seasons.]

The Ravens moved on from Dilfer after winning the super bowl with him. It sorta makes sense but also sorta funny.

BloopOracle wrote:I think the Seahawks are a great example of an extended Super Bowl window and in my opinion it's because their QB was on his rookie contract. I see us very similar to the Seahawks in that we have a ton of young talent of defense we can lock up because we aren't paying our QB like virtually every other NFL team.

If Teddy was already on his 2nd contract which seems to be an auto 15+ million a year for even average QB play we would be screwed because we would have no room to pay all of our defensive stars. Basically I view Teddy on his rookie contract as silver lining in all of this.

I'm also impressed with how we have been drafting and developing talent, if we continue on mid round picks like we have been we will be in good shape to replace players like captain munnerlyn and Robsion with picks like Mack Alexander and Danielle Hunter.

That makes sense... but Russell Wilson didn't suffer extensive knee damage in his 3rd season.

And as much as I dig Bridgewater... Wilson was a much more proven commodity (6 - 2 playoff record and 2 SB appearances... 72 TDs/26 INTs) by the time that 4th season rolled around. He's never missed an NFL game.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TheSP wrote:

PorkChop wrote:I realize it was in the heat of the moment but when the players are cussing and throwing their helmets around its a real indictment on what they think the teams chances are with Hill at the helm.

From what I've read it was a visceral reaction to seeing the injury. A lot of us don't have the stomach to view a person's lower leg flopping around looser than a pool noodle! From what I've read quite a few players lost their lunch. I think the cussing and throwing of helmets had little to do with Hill at that time.

Yeah, we don't know exactly what the players were thinking as they were throwing around expletives and helmets while vomiting, but I don't think they were processing the impact on the season at all...as SP said, it had to be more visceral than that. I think their immediate thoughts were:

-Ugh, that's the most gruesome thing I have ever seen up close, and

-this is a brutal game, and the same thing could easily happen to me

The Shaun Hill and season implications came later.

If your starting QB goes down I'm sure there is probably some consideration of your season being in jeopardy would be there as well. That's not a knock on Shaun hill or nearly any other backup but that's just the reality. There isn't a team in the league that has a no brainer backup that you feel just as good about as the starter. As for Shaun Hill I bet his teammates feel reasonably good about the guy. Everything I have heard he is a great guy smart etc.

Looking back at Shaun Hill's career the guy is basically average. That's not all that bad. What makes him better than Cassel or other similar backups? Well Hill's completion percentage is much higher. Cassel was not accurate over his career below 60%. Hill on the other hand is a bit over 62%. Cassel had a good arm but wasn't accurate. Hill doesn't have the big arm but is more accurate. I'll prefer the later for a game manager type which is exactly what this team needs.

I think we monitor the waiver wire. Hope someone becomes available. I think we need to plan on getting someone if Hill goes down at this point and hope we can find someone better. In the offseason we need to grab a QB in the draft before the 5th round and sign a vet FA.

Think how much better we would feel about things if we would have gotten Nick Foles.