GDT: Wolves B Team vs the Thunder's A Team

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

LST, It's silly comparing Dunn's situation to Zach in terms of "trying them" at PG. There is absolutely no comparison. Dunn actually played PG all four years at Providence whereas Zach was forced into that role with the Wolves by Flip after zero college experience playing PG.

While I haven't been impressed with Dunn as a floor general yet and I absolutely see him playing the 2 in certain situations where we go with a dual-PG lineup, his long-term position is PG.

The good news is that it's just pre-season. Everyone has stayed healthy and Dunn will hopefully start getting more comfortable.

[longstrangetrip [enjin:6600564]]

LST, It's silly comparing Dunn's situation to Zach in terms of "trying them" at PG. There is absolutely no comparison. Dunn actually played PG all four years at Providence whereas Zach was forced into that role with the Wolves by Flip after zero college experience playing PG.

While I haven't been impressed with Dunn as a floor general yet and I absolutely see him playing the 2 in certain situations where we go with a dual-PG lineup, his long-term position is PG.

The good news is that it's just pre-season. Everyone has stayed healthy and Dunn will hopefully start getting more comfortable.

I don't think it's silly at all, Q. Yes, Zach wasn't allowed to play PG his one year at UCLA because Alford preferred Adams and Anderson on the ball, but frankly Alford didn't like Zach at SG much either as he played him less than 20 MPG. I was living in LA then and I can tell you the fans were not happy with how Zach was handled. He had played nothing but PG his entire life and the fans wanted to see him play there, but Alford kept him on the bench or in limited minutes at SG. Zach worked out primarily with the PGs pre-draft, and was very vocal about saying he was comfortable at both positions.

I would also argue that Dunn was playing out of position at Providence, and I would cite his near 4 TOs per game his senior year as evidence. The Friars had a natural PG last year in Kyron Cartwright (4 assists and only 1.4 TOs per game), and Dunn was playing off the ball for many of the 24 MPG Cartwright was running the point. If you watch video of Providence last year, Dunn did have some spectacular Love-like TD pass assists, but I think their half-court offense was most efficient when he was playing off the ball next to Cartwright.

I would also argue that I don't see much difference between early career Zach and early career Kris at PG, even though Kris is much older than Zach was in his first year and should be expected to be more comfortable at the point. Both are enormously athletic, but the offense seems to grind to a halt when they run the point. I also don't but the rhetoric that Zach was forced into the PG role by Flip. GM Flip could have made roster moves to keep Zach at SG if he thought that was the best move, but instead he repeatedly said that he thought playing PG was the best move for Zach's development long-term...and Zach has echoed this sentiment often (even this weekend in an interview).

By all means, continue to use Dunn at PG...maybe he learns how to protect the ball better, and if not, it still will be helpful in his development as a guard. My only point is I would like to see how Dunn would play next to Tyus...I think he could excel in that role just like he did next to Cartwright last year.

[Lipoli390]

Westbrook seems much more of a SG than PG. Lillard doesn't impress as someone setting up Portland's offense and making his teammates better. The list goes on. There are, in fact, a long of NBA PGs who once would have been called SGs. Admittedly, some guards are particularly bad running the offense and they really have to play off the ball. LaVine is one of those guys, although given his youth and lack of experience coming into the NBA he might have developed into a decent scoring PG, but that would have taken away from his strengths.

Watching him in college, Dunn struck me as a scoring PG in the mold of a Westbrook, but not nearly as talented overall. So far this preseason, Dunn seems to be getting a lot of assists. Watching him in college I thought he saw the floor well and made good decisions running the offense. His problem has been protecting the ball. In the one game I watched on line this preseason I noticed that Dunn was losing the ball off the dribble, not on bad passes. I saw him do the same thing in college. He's careless with the ball and not a great ball-handler by NBA PG standards. He'll have to improve that aspect of his game to be a good NBA PG.

I just don't see him as a Dwayne Wade type SG. He's not a good enough scorer in my view. But I'm not opposed to pairing him with Tyus in the second unit this preseason or even this regular season just to see.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Kris Dunn definitely played off the ball part time in his last year in Providence. Before the draft I watched some full games available on youtube. If someone says that Dunn played PG all the time I question if that person watched Dunn in college.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

Watching him in college, Dunn struck me as a scoring PG in the mold of a Westbrook, but not nearly as talented overall. So far this preseason, Dunn seems to be getting a lot of assists. Watching him in college I thought he saw the floor well and made good decisions running the offense. His problem has been protecting the ball. In the one game I watched on line this preseason I noticed that Dunn was losing the ball off the dribble, not on bad passes. I saw him do the same thing in college. He's careless with the ball and not a great ball-handler by NBA PG standards. He'll have to improve that aspect of his game to be a good NBA PG.

I disagree that he made good decisions. His decision making along with his poor handle are his main issues. He also often attacks out of control and tries some tough acrobatic finishes which also is a sign of poor decisions. But he's got good court vision and can compete some ambitious passes which helps him rack up good assist numbers.

[Monster]

LST, It's silly comparing Dunn's situation to Zach in terms of "trying them" at PG. There is absolutely no comparison. Dunn actually played PG all four years at Providence whereas Zach was forced into that role with the Wolves by Flip after zero college experience playing PG.

While I haven't been impressed with Dunn as a floor general yet and I absolutely see him playing the 2 in certain situations where we go with a dual-PG lineup, his long-term position is PG.

The good news is that it's just pre-season. Everyone has stayed healthy and Dunn will hopefully start getting more comfortable.

I don't think it's silly at all, Q. Yes, Zach wasn't allowed to play PG his one year at UCLA because Alford preferred Adams and Anderson on the ball, but frankly Alford didn't like Zach at SG much either as he played him less than 20 MPG. I was living in LA then and I can tell you the fans were not happy with how Zach was handled. He had played nothing but PG his entire life and the fans wanted to see him play there, but Alford kept him on the bench or in limited minutes at SG. Zach worked out primarily with the PGs pre-draft, and was very vocal about saying he was comfortable at both positions.

I would also argue that Dunn was playing out of position at Providence, and I would cite his near 4 TOs per game his senior year as evidence. The Friars had a natural PG last year in Kyron Cartwright (4 assists and only 1.4 TOs per game), and Dunn was playing off the ball for many of the 24 MPG Cartwright was running the point. If you watch video of Providence last year, Dunn did have some spectacular Love-like TD pass assists, but I think their half-court offense was most efficient when he was playing off the ball next to Cartwright.

I would also argue that I don't see much difference between early career Zach and early career Kris at PG, even though Kris is much older than Zach was in his first year and should be expected to be more comfortable at the point. Both are enormously athletic, but the offense seems to grind to a halt when they run the point. I also don't but the rhetoric that Zach was forced into the PG role by Flip. GM Flip could have made roster moves to keep Zach at SG if he thought that was the best move, but instead he repeatedly said that he thought playing PG was the best move for Zach's development long-term...and Zach has echoed this sentiment often (even this weekend in an interview).

By all means, continue to use Dunn at PG...maybe he learns how to protect the ball better, and if not, it still will be helpful in his development as a guard. My only point is I would like to see how Dunn would play next to Tyus...I think he could excel in that role just like he did next to Cartwright last year.

You forgot Alford's son was getting significant minutes at PG that year as a freshman.

[Coolbreeze44]

I will go as far as to say this, and I'm sure some of you aren't going to like it. If Dunn can't play PG in the NBA, he is going to have a relatively short career. Playing off the ball some in college doesn't mean anything if you can't keep the defense honest at the NBA level. If Thibs plays Rubio and Dunn in the same backcourt (and I think he realizes he can't) , we are going to be twice as easy to defend. It's bad enough being able to sag off Rubio, but when you don't have to respect the outside game of both guards defending becomes elementary. As a coach when I'm playing against a team with guards that can't shoot, I'm salivating. Game planning is made simple. I'd have to believe at the NBA level it would be even more magnified.

[Brooklyn_Wolves [enjin:14608167]]

I will go as far as to say this, and I'm sure some of you aren't going to like it. If Dunn can't play PG in the NBA, he is going to have a relatively short career. Playing off the ball some in college doesn't mean anything if you can't keep the defense honest at the NBA level. If Thibs plays Rubio and Dunn in the same backcourt (and I think he realizes he can't) , we are going to be twice as easy to defend. It's bad enough being able to sag off Rubio, but when you don't have to respect the outside game of both guards defending becomes elementary. As a coach when I'm playing against a team with guards that can't shoot, I'm salivating. Game planning is made simple. I'd have to believe at the NBA level it would be even more magnified.

Well, Antonio Daniels didn't pan out as a PG after had been drafted @ #4, but he stuck around the NBA as a combo guard for a long time. But you're right that Rubio/Dunn backcourt at their current level of shooting seems like a bad idea. Too bad, as their pressure defense could be a spectacular sight.

[Monster]

I will go as far as to say this, and I'm sure some of you aren't going to like it. If Dunn can't play PG in the NBA, he is going to have a relatively short career. Playing off the ball some in college doesn't mean anything if you can't keep the defense honest at the NBA level. If Thibs plays Rubio and Dunn in the same backcourt (and I think he realizes he can't) , we are going to be twice as easy to defend. It's bad enough being able to sag off Rubio, but when you don't have to respect the outside game of both guards defending becomes elementary. As a coach when I'm playing against a team with guards that can't shoot, I'm salivating. Game planning is made simple. I'd have to believe at the NBA level it would be even more magnified.

I agree with what you are saying be the reality is it's tough to be an effective perimeter player that can't shoot it doesn't really matter what position it is. Rubio is so special in other areas he still is a pretty good player with such a big flaw but that's an exception to the rule. So yeah let's hope he can shoot and yeah absolutely it would be even worse if he can't play PG. I don't think Dunn would be out of the league if he can't shoot he would at least stick around like a Marcus Smart type that going to be on a team's bench because I think he will be a legit defensive player that's pretty physically gifted and probably can at least be good enough to be a backup PG. It's still early let's see how it plays out and right now I want to see him playing as a PG unless he is inserted into the lineup as a defensive replacement or something for a possession here or there.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

I will go as far as to say this, and I'm sure some of you aren't going to like it. If Dunn can't play PG in the NBA, he is going to have a relatively short career. Playing off the ball some in college doesn't mean anything if you can't keep the defense honest at the NBA level. If Thibs plays Rubio and Dunn in the same backcourt (and I think he realizes he can't) , we are going to be twice as easy to defend. It's bad enough being able to sag off Rubio, but when you don't have to respect the outside game of both guards defending becomes elementary. As a coach when I'm playing against a team with guards that can't shoot, I'm salivating. Game planning is made simple. I'd have to believe at the NBA level it would be even more magnified.

I agree with what you are saying be the reality is it's tough to be an effective perimeter player that can't shoot it doesn't really matter what position it is. Rubio is so special in other areas he still is a pretty good player with such a big flaw but that's an exception to the rule. So yeah let's hope he can shoot and yeah absolutely it would be even worse if he can't play PG. I don't think Dunn would be out of the league if he can't shoot he would at least stick around like a Marcus Smart type that going to be on a team's bench because I think he will be a legit defensive player that's pretty physically gifted and probably can at least be good enough to be a backup PG. It's still early let's see how it plays out and right now I want to see him playing as a PG unless he is inserted into the lineup as a defensive replacement or something for a possession here or there.

True, but what's the difference between Rubio-Dunn-Rush and Dunn-Bazz-Rush? Bazz is not exactly known for a great perimeter game either.

The fact is 3-point shooting is still a weakness for this team. Now, part of our problem the last couple of years was simply volume of 3's taken. Thibs seems to be correcting this based on the early pre-season results. After all, a 3-pointer at a mediocre rate of 33% is still a much better shot than a long 2 at 40% (and that's actually a good percentage for a long 2). Yet Flip and Mitchell (especially Flip) could never get this simple math in their thick heads.

Accuracy on the other hand is the wildcard. We certainly aren't going to be Golden State, which has somehow managed to assemble three of the greatest shooters of all time on one roster. Last year we ranked 25th in accuracy. If we can bump that up to 20th or so and get a lot more volume, while still getting to the line a bunch, I'm confident our offense will be fine.