Minnesota Sports Forum

I think two things are going on with this debate. 1st, this draft is being overrated. This is not a good or a deep draft. Even Simmons and Ingram have major flaws coming into the league that will take several years if ever to fix (Simmons can't shoot or defend and Ingram is a major twig of a body build). Then you have Bender, Dunn, Hield and Murray who all have major room for improvement as well. I think this draft is going to be closer to the Bennett draft than the Wiggins draft in terms of quality players. I think as usual every player is being treated as almost a sure thing to be a player at the next level when they aren't. Noel is a known commodity with room to grow because he's young. At worst you're adding a great defender with Noel. At worst the draft pick might not even get to a rotation level player.

2nd, Dieng is being overrated. He averaged 12.5/8/2.3/1.4/1.1 as a starter and Noel averaged 11/8/1.8/1.5/1.8 as a starter on a worse team with no PG to help him get the ball in good spots. That just goes to show that Dieng may be better offensively, but his role is still always going to be the 4th option on that first unit so bringing in a better defender to strengthen that weakness of the first unit and allowing Dieng to have a bigger offensive impact on the second unit would better balance our team. Dieng is a good player, but he's always going go be the 5th best player on that starting unit so I think him being called a core piece is overdoing it. If Dieng had to be moved to keep Zach, Wiggins or Towns here it would happen instantly so that's not a core piece. Dieng is nothing more than a solid role player. Noel has the potential to be an All-NBA defender. It's not even an argument for me who I would rather keep if I had to pick between the two which I don't even have to do anyway.

Cam -

It's very obvious you think PF position is a position of great weakness for us. Noel is the 4th or 5th PF you've spend about week on this board glamouring for in the last two months. I guess I'm wondering who is next on your list? Lets see we've went through, Horford, Favors, Randle and now Noel. I'm sure I'm missing someone. I'll just sit back and wait and see who's next...

To me the reality of Dieng is that we just don't know for sure what he is outside of a sure thing as a rotation player. Is that all Dieng is or is there some more to his game yet? I think everyone here would agree Dieng took a pretty significant step forward all around as a player this season. He played well as a PF and there were times he had to be taken out but there were also times he matched up well against guys so thought he was going to struggle against. It's a bit weird to not know what you have in a 26 year old guy like him but I think it's true. It makes it easy to over rate him and underrate him and have fair arguments on either side of those. That's sorta been Dieng's career in a nutshell. Legit flashes of good stuff but some legit questions about how good he can really be. The good news is he is closer to being a guy you don't want to trade than a guy you move because you don't want to pay him. That pretty big at least for most on this board.

Sidenote: Dieng won't be participating in Sengal's Olympic qualifying games either.

Duke13 wrote:Cam -

It's very obvious you think PF position is a position of great weakness for us. Noel is the 4th or 5th PF you've spend about week on this board glamouring for in the last two months. I guess I'm wondering who is next on your list? Lets see we've went through, Horford, Favors, Randle and now Noel. I'm sure I'm missing someone. I'll just sit back and wait and see who's next...

I mean I think a lot of us would agree pf is our weakest starting position. This is the last year the wolves will have the ability to acquire talent without giving up a piece of the puzzle. And every player (minus randle) that has been talked about has legit all-something potential. This is a crucial offseason because this is the last chance to add a piece without giving up one

I guess I don't quite see why this off season is the last to add talent. I also think there's enough talent at the PF position to be able to win with this year. It's not so bad we have to sign a 20 mill a year player. Lip, I agree with your above post, I would prefer to see how this core plays together before making a big splash. We are t winning the title next year gentleman. Also I think the talent at the 5 pick is worth not trading it, whether it be Dunn, Murrary, Bender or Hield.

khans2k5 wrote:I think two things are going on with this debate. 1st, this draft is being overrated. This is not a good or a deep draft. Even Simmons and Ingram have major flaws coming into the league that will take several years if ever to fix (Simmons can't shoot or defend and Ingram is a major twig of a body build). Then you have Bender, Dunn, Hield and Murray who all have major room for improvement as well. I think this draft is going to be closer to the Bennett draft than the Wiggins draft in terms of quality players. I think as usual every player is being treated as almost a sure thing to be a player at the next level when they aren't. Noel is a known commodity with room to grow because he's young. At worst you're adding a great defender with Noel. At worst the draft pick might not even get to a rotation level player.

2nd, Dieng is being overrated. He averaged 12.5/8/2.3/1.4/1.1 as a starter and Noel averaged 11/8/1.8/1.5/1.8 as a starter on a worse team with no PG to help him get the ball in good spots. That just goes to show that Dieng may be better offensively, but his role is still always going to be the 4th option on that first unit so bringing in a better defender to strengthen that weakness of the first unit and allowing Dieng to have a bigger offensive impact on the second unit would better balance our team. Dieng is a good player, but he's always going go be the 5th best player on that starting unit so I think him being called a core piece is overdoing it. If Dieng had to be moved to keep Zach, Wiggins or Towns here it would happen instantly so that's not a core piece. Dieng is nothing more than a solid role player. Noel has the potential to be an All-NBA defender. It's not even an argument for me who I would rather keep if I had to pick between the two which I don't even have to do anyway.

You put forth the main argument for many here. Noel will very likely mean the end for Dieng. If you believe Noel is this huge upgrade over Dieng, then it's a hard argument. I think Dieng is the better overall player, and is not a liability on either side of the court. Add the potential of a 5th round overall pick to what Dieng already provides and it's also an easy choice for me.
Dieng + potential of 5th round pick > Noel

lipoli390 wrote:My bottom line is that we shouldn't give up major talent (Zach, Gorgui, Andrew, KAT) in a trade or pay big free agent money for any established player until after we see how our current core plays through at least the first half of this season under Thibs. I could see giving up our #5 pick for the right player, but I'm reluctant to do that because I like the talent that will be available at #5 and I love the rookie salary scale (amount and duration) as a hedge against cap risk down the road.

This summer, we should be focused on two things. First focus should be on getting the best player or players possible in the draft -- which might include trading down in a 1 pick for 2 picks deal. I lean towards Hield because it's highly likely he'll be a great long-range shooter (one of our key needs) and he looks close to NBA ready so he can hit the ground running. I also like Murray and Dunn. Trading down and landing Sabonis along with another prospect is also intriguing. Second focus should be on augmenting our depth by acquiring mid-tier veteran bench players like one or two of the following: Cole Aldrich, Jamal Crawford, Bazemore, etc.

If we do more than what I've suggested, I could live with a big money free agent acquisition like Noah, Deng or Horford. But I would absolutely, positively not trade any of our core young players or our #5 pick for a high-priced veteran -- even for Noel.

Lip, I agree with your approach. I really want to see how Zach, Gorgui, Wiggs, KAT and Ricky play together under Thibs. I am reluctant to commit money on a big time free agent this year for this reason and I think next year's free agent class is better. I'd still like to add some bargain free agents that can help provide quality depth like Cole Aldrich, Dudley, Chalmers, Courtney Lee. I also prefer to keep our pick and take Bender or Hield if either falls to 5. If not, I'd probably take Dunn at 5 if his health checks out and we add him as a complimentary piece to Ricky. If Buddy and Bender are off the board and Thibs isn't sold on Dunn, I'd consider trading down into the 7-12 spot where some of the following guys should be available: Chriss, Jaylen Brown, Luwawu, Valentine, Poeltl, Sabonis, Murray or Davis and get another pick in the 20s to target a perimeter defender like McCaw, Prince or Baldwin.

Duke13 wrote:Cam -

It's very obvious you think PF position is a position of great weakness for us. Noel is the 4th or 5th PF you've spend about week on this board glamouring for in the last two months. I guess I'm wondering who is next on your list? Lets see we've went through, Horford, Favors, Randle and now Noel. I'm sure I'm missing someone. I'll just sit back and wait and see who's next...

I guess I'm wondering what your point is, or if you don't actually have a point. Yes, we need a starting caliber PF or C next to Towns. I've said it, others here have said it, Minnesota columnists have said it, and other NBA minds (David Thorpe, Chad Ford, etc.) have said the same thing. So, why do you continually to bring up how I've discussed what our options could be, and what options I personally like? Why does Duke13 have a problem with that?

We already have two good bigs who can play together. We also have Belly who I expect big things from. If we sign Cole Aldrich or another big in free agency, we are in pretty good shape. I'm more worried about finding a good perimeter defending wing player. This is a bigger need for us.

TheFuture wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:I think two things are going on with this debate. 1st, this draft is being overrated. This is not a good or a deep draft. Even Simmons and Ingram have major flaws coming into the league that will take several years if ever to fix (Simmons can't shoot or defend and Ingram is a major twig of a body build). Then you have Bender, Dunn, Hield and Murray who all have major room for improvement as well. I think this draft is going to be closer to the Bennett draft than the Wiggins draft in terms of quality players. I think as usual every player is being treated as almost a sure thing to be a player at the next level when they aren't. Noel is a known commodity with room to grow because he's young. At worst you're adding a great defender with Noel. At worst the draft pick might not even get to a rotation level player.

2nd, Dieng is being overrated. He averaged 12.5/8/2.3/1.4/1.1 as a starter and Noel averaged 11/8/1.8/1.5/1.8 as a starter on a worse team with no PG to help him get the ball in good spots. That just goes to show that Dieng may be better offensively, but his role is still always going to be the 4th option on that first unit so bringing in a better defender to strengthen that weakness of the first unit and allowing Dieng to have a bigger offensive impact on the second unit would better balance our team. Dieng is a good player, but he's always going go be the 5th best player on that starting unit so I think him being called a core piece is overdoing it. If Dieng had to be moved to keep Zach, Wiggins or Towns here it would happen instantly so that's not a core piece. Dieng is nothing more than a solid role player. Noel has the potential to be an All-NBA defender. It's not even an argument for me who I would rather keep if I had to pick between the two which I don't even have to do anyway.

You put forth the main argument for many here. Noel will very likely mean the end for Dieng. If you believe Noel is this huge upgrade over Dieng, then it's a hard argument. I think Dieng is the better overall player, and is not a liability on either side of the court. Add the potential of a 5th round overall pick to what Dieng already provides and it's also an easy choice for me.
Dieng + potential of 5th round pick > Noel

Well said, Future. I agree.