Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:

TRKO wrote:I don't think you look at our roster when you make the draft pick. Pick the best guy and work from there. If we have two great young SGs, then so be it. You can always trade good talent for usable assets.

I don't agree with ignoring what our roster currently has. I think people enjoy saying "pick best available player" because it sounds great in theory, but good/great teams pick best available player that fits what they have built already.

Best example off the top of my head is when we picked Derrick Williams in 2011. Yes, Williams was the best available talent at the time (the draft was widely considered a two-player draft). He didn't work out, but taking him No. 2 wasn't a reach in any sense of the word. And yet, we messed up. We took a player No. 2 overall to play behind the team's best player in Kevin Love. We ignored what the team already had. We could have added a player that fit with Love and the rest of that nucleus.

That's what we need to do this year. Pick a high talent that fits with what we have going on. Most of these prospects are going to be ranked closely anyway. So, taking into account the team fit is necessary. For example, I think Jamal Murray is the better talent between him and Jakob Poeltl, but taking Murray is questionable because we have LaVine and Wiggins already. Take Poeltl because we need bigs, and he'd fit perfectly with Towns and Dieng.

I had no problem in 2011 because that team was coming off 65- and 67-loss seasons. It just needed talent. Period. Drafting an inferior prospect based on need when there are so many needs is too myopic for my tastes. That season was more unfortunate timing than anything else.

Or, the Wolves could have simply tried to trade the pick. Don't reach. Simply move to the guy you want and add assets at the same time.

As for Poeltl. I have to be honest, I'm scared. I've seen him play parts of one game, and then the Gonzaga game. I haven't been that disappointed since watching Hasheem Thabeet spend more time on his butt than feet during a late-season Big East game years ago. I remember calling out Thabeet after that game. It wasn't an "aha I'm the best at predicting this stuff" moment. It just seemed weird. He seemed soooo soft. Anyway, Poeltl looked overwhelmed as well. Hopefully, it was just a small sample size...

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

TRKO wrote:I don't think you look at our roster when you make the draft pick. Pick the best guy and work from there. If we have two great young SGs, then so be it. You can always trade good talent for usable assets.

I don't agree with ignoring what our roster currently has. I think people enjoy saying "pick best available player" because it sounds great in theory, but good/great teams pick best available player that fits what they have built already.

Best example off the top of my head is when we picked Derrick Williams in 2011. Yes, Williams was the best available talent at the time (the draft was widely considered a two-player draft). He didn't work out, but taking him No. 2 wasn't a reach in any sense of the word. And yet, we messed up. We took a player No. 2 overall to play behind the team's best player in Kevin Love. We ignored what the team already had. We could have added a player that fit with Love and the rest of that nucleus.

That's what we need to do this year. Pick a high talent that fits with what we have going on. Most of these prospects are going to be ranked closely anyway. So, taking into account the team fit is necessary. For example, I think Jamal Murray is the better talent between him and Jakob Poeltl, but taking Murray is questionable because we have LaVine and Wiggins already. Take Poeltl because we need bigs, and he'd fit perfectly with Towns and Dieng.

I had no problem in 2011 because that team was coming off 65- and 67-loss seasons. It just needed talent. Period. Drafting an inferior prospect based on need when there are so many needs is too myopic for my tastes. That season was more unfortunate timing than anything else.

Or, the Wolves could have simply tried to trade the pick. Don't reach. Simply move to the guy you want and add assets at the same time.

As for Poeltl. I have to be honest, I'm scared. I've seen him play parts of one game, and then the Gonzaga game. I haven't been that disappointed since watching Hasheem Thabeet spend more time on his butt than feet during a late-season Big East game years ago. I remember calling out Thabeet after that game. It wasn't an "aha I'm the best at predicting this stuff" moment. It just seemed weird. He seemed soooo soft. Anyway, Poeltl looked overwhelmed as well. Hopefully, it was just a small sample size...

I like Poeltl and I know what you are getting at. Thabeet was extremely long and was a monster shot blocker but Poeltl has a couple things to keep me feeling a little more positive. Comparing the guys at the ages they were drafted Poeltl is 2 years younger a much better scorer. He has more of a reasonable opportunity to get stronger or know how to use his body as he gets older than Thabeet did just because of his age.

Here is the other side of the coin picking Poeltl. How many teams the last 5 or so years have been able to find rotation level PF/C in the 2nd round or guys that weren't even drafted? There have been a lot. Maybe the Wolves can get in on that or maybe sign a bargain big man FA this summer. The bottom line is that if the wolves just need to find a guy that can play and if they can even just come up with even a guy that's only as good as what Marvin Williams has been in his career with this pick it will be a relative success and help move the team forward.

Wait, are we discussing Poeltl at #45? If we are, then sign me up. But as far as #5, it should be Sabonnis.

Not much was said about my post about Wiltjer. I just want to say that I've seen a lot of people on this board say they want a "Stretch 4" to pair with KAT. Well, I think with some work, KAT could be the "stretch 4" to pair with Pek, but be that as it may, when I saw Wiltjet, I thought "there's the new MattBullard/MattBonner", and at #45, is it THAT big of a gamble? If so, maybe trade down to get future picks and use a pick even later in the 2nd round? Is that a big part of the 2nd round of the NBA draft like it is the NFL draft?

And speaking of the NFL draft, if the Viking trade down and end up with a pick in the early 4th round, does anyone else like the idea of them using it on the punter from Utah?

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Wait, are we discussing Poeltl at #45? If we are, then sign me up. But as far as #5, it should be Sabonnis.

Not much was said about my post about Wiltjer. I just want to say that I've seen a lot of people on this board say they want a "Stretch 4" to pair with KAT. Well, I think with some work, KAT could be the "stretch 4" to pair with Pek, but be that as it may, when I saw Wiltjet, I thought "there's the new MattBullard/MattBonner", and at #45, is it THAT big of a gamble? If so, maybe trade down to get future picks and use a pick even later in the 2nd round? Is that a big part of the 2nd round of the NBA draft like it is the NFL draft?

And speaking of the NFL draft, if the Viking trade down and end up with a pick in the early 4th round, does anyone else like the idea of them using it on the punter from Utah?

Poeltl's still a better NBA prospect than Sabonis, primarily because of his added length. You can't teach 7'1 with a 7'1 wingspan. Sabonis is still a lottery guy, though, despite where some draft sites project him to go.

Wiltjer is super talented offensively. Shooting the three, putting the ball on the deck, spacing out after setting the pick, not too shabby in the post either. The problem with him is that he's atrocious defensively. That's while going against college players and he's 23 years old (shouldn't be this bad with four years of experience). I don't see how that problem isn't an even bigger one when the talent level is so much higher in the NBA.

I don't think a stretch 4 is our biggest need. As far as a big goes, we need a very good rim protector. I think we can address this in free agency, but as far as this draft goes the Louisville sophomore center, Chinanu Onuaku would be a great pickup in the second round. Deyonta Davis is another defensive minded big but he would be too early to take with our first pick and will probably be gone somewhere in the 14-22 range. I wouldn't call Sabonis a rim protector but he's solid defensively and has good range and he would be a solid choice if we had a pick in the 9-14 range, but I think we'd have better options with a top 5-7 pick.

Camden wrote:

JasonIsDaMan wrote:Wait, are we discussing Poeltl at #45? If we are, then sign me up. But as far as #5, it should be Sabonnis.

Not much was said about my post about Wiltjer. I just want to say that I've seen a lot of people on this board say they want a "Stretch 4" to pair with KAT. Well, I think with some work, KAT could be the "stretch 4" to pair with Pek, but be that as it may, when I saw Wiltjet, I thought "there's the new MattBullard/MattBonner", and at #45, is it THAT big of a gamble? If so, maybe trade down to get future picks and use a pick even later in the 2nd round? Is that a big part of the 2nd round of the NBA draft like it is the NFL draft?

And speaking of the NFL draft, if the Viking trade down and end up with a pick in the early 4th round, does anyone else like the idea of them using it on the punter from Utah?

Poeltl's still a better NBA prospect than Sabonis, primarily because of his added length. You can't teach 7'1 with a 7'1 wingspan. Sabonis is still a lottery guy, though, despite where some draft sites project him to go.

Wiltjer is super talented offensively. Shooting the three, putting the ball on the deck, spacing out after setting the pick, not too shabby in the post either. The problem with him is that he's atrocious defensively. That's while going against college players and he's 23 years old (shouldn't be this bad with four years of experience). I don't see how that problem isn't an even bigger one when the talent level is so much higher in the NBA.

So we're still doing the "length is all" thing? Then how about Tacko Fall? Are Shawn Bradley and Randy Breuer still unsigned? Poeltl played the season not DIRECTLY matched up against a great C (Wash. has two good PF's, but they are both smaller than Sabonnis, so they either weren't guarding him, or guarding a guy they don't usually guard), then he ran into Gonzaga. When you draft a guy, you're saying "I think Mr. X will have a better career than all the other guys who applied for the draft remaining on the board at that position group", or you're saying that position group doesn't matter that guy is going to be so good. Sabbonis, if healthy, will have a better career than Poeltl.

As far as Wiltjer, I made the comparison to Matt Bullard and Matt Bonner. So, you feel that I mentioned those two because they are defensive gems? I noticed all the things you noticed about his offense AND defense. You just need him to be a fifth post. As far as the 23 thing: So one year? So MIN can't draft a guy with the 45th pick because of ONE YEAR? This isn't the Carolina Panthers drafting Chris Weinke when he was 28. So when San Antonio drafted David Robinson and then waited through his 2-year stint out at sea, you were thinking the Spurs had blown it? When you watched Robinson his rookie year, you didn't think "what a good player", you thought "Oh sure, any 24-year-old could do this"?

Of course the bad news is that it's dicey as to whether or not the Wolves are gonna have that 2nd rounder from Houston which is top 45 protected.

monsterpile wrote:Of course the bad news is that it's dicey as to whether or not the Wolves are gonna have that 2nd rounder from Houston which is top 45 protected.

Not Top 45 protected. It must fall in the top 45 or it is extinguished. {per NBA Draft dot net}

Not terribly dicey. They can make the playoffs, and as long as they have the worst record of the 16 teams, MIN gets it. They are currently a game behind Utah with 8 to play and tied with DAL. Utah does have a tough schedule left, but DAL's isn't brutal. Maybe HOU passes UTA and DAL passes them both?

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Of course the bad news is that it's dicey as to whether or not the Wolves are gonna have that 2nd rounder from Houston which is top 45 protected.

Not Top 45 protected. It must fall in the top 45 or it is extinguished. {per NBA Draft dot net}

Not terribly dicey. They can make the playoffs, and as long as they have the worst record of the 16 teams, MIN gets it. They are currently a game behind Utah with 8 to play and tied with DAL. Utah does have a tough schedule left, but DAL's isn't brutal. Maybe HOU passes UTA and DAL passes them both?

Every other site I have seen has that pick as top 45 protected and if it is 31-45 it's extinguished. My guess is they are mistaken/or it's written weirdly to make it seem the way you are thinking which is completely understandable.

Buddy is 1 year younger than Shabazz. That is something you have to think about with him. They booth were in the same freshman class. Both would be seniors this year. I think Shabazz would have been pretty sold at the college level this year.