Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I think Love's defense is getting the easy, cursory bad rap. Especially when compared to Thad Young. Even when Young was "trying", he was as bad or worse than Love in many ways.

Love's defense made great strides last season overall, despite some obvious flaws.

As for watching and hoping for the young guys... Donyell Marshall, Gerald Glass, Steph Marbury, Will Avery, Ndudi Ebi, Louis Bullock, Paul Grant, Felton Spencer, et al...

That's where the apathy comes in for many. They've been down this road before. Again and again.

I'm trying to understand your point about the young guys, abe. Are you saying that you were as excited about that group of 8 guys as you are about Wiggins/LaVine/Bennett/Muhammad/Dieng? The only rookie I was excited about in that woeful gang of 8 was Marbury. The reason apathy hasn't sunk in for me is that we now have 5 rookies and second year guys with more promise than most of the draft picks of the past. They're painful to watch at times, but all five have had games this year that showed what the future may have in store for us. I had to turn the game off at halftime last night, but I am patiently waiting for the return of Rubio and Martin, as I expect the last half of the season to be as fun as the first four games were.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Nope, I plead not guilty. I think I have been relatively objective about all the draft picks you mention, and I see no comparison between the two groups...I'm much more excited about the current crop.

Marbury: Coney Island legend...I was completely on board when he joined the club, almost as much as I am about Wiggins now, but not quite. I bought into the hype and didn't realize what a knucklehead he was.

Marshall: Great scorer, but I never liked the pick. I didn't think he did anything especially well...soft, average shooter, average ball handler. I wasn't upset when he left the Wolves, and his mediocre career is about what I expected.

Glass: Another great college scorer, but there were a number of reasons he went late in the first round. I never get excited about guys drafted in the 20s, even if some of them pan out.

Ebi: A friend of mine was coaching the DeLaSalle defense when Ebi came to town to play them, so I went to the game. I was completely underwhelmed, and absolutely stunned when we drafted him so high.

Avery, Grant, Spencer. Bullock. Come on, abe...was anybody excited about any of these picks? Avery was another overrated Dukie that everyone knew wasn't going to be very good. I watched Paul Grant's pre-draft workout and thought he was unbelievably clumsy. As for Felton Spencer...how many guys that big need four years of college to get the NBA's interest. I was shocked when he went in the top ten. And as for Bullock, I honestly don't remember us drafting him. Maybe we did, but it had no impact on me.

Now, the current crop:

Wiggins: I've been following this guy since he was 14, and never thought he would ever be a T-Wolf...dream come true.

Bennett: If you look at the 2013 pre-draft discussion, you'll see how high I was on this guy. I wasn't at all surprised that the Cavs picked him number 1, but was stunned at his horrible rookie year. I think we have seen already the potential he has.

Muhammad: Like Wiggins and Marbury, this guy was on everyone's radar since he was a tyke, and I saw him live several times at UCLA. Sure, he had his flaws, but it was clear to me that he could be a big-time scorer in the NBA.

Dieng: I wasn't as excited about this pick because I thought he would be a defensive player only. But he has surprised me. Any comparisons of Deing to Grant and Spencer would be folly.

LaVine: I'm not as high on Zach as some are here. Again, I watched him a lot in college, and while you can't dispute his athleticism, he's the only one in this group of 5 that I have a difficult time projecting as an NBA starter.

I guess I don't see how the groups can be compared. Flip has added four lottery picks (2 of them #1's) and a NCAA champion center who has overachieved to our roster in just two years. I think I hear you saying that you were as excited about the eight guys you cite as the current group of five (hence the "hindsight" comment), but I find that comparison baffling.

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I think Love's defense is getting the easy, cursory bad rap. Especially when compared to Thad Young. Even when Young was "trying", he was as bad or worse than Love in many ways.

Love's defense made great strides last season overall, despite some obvious flaws.

As for watching and hoping for the young guys... Donyell Marshall, Gerald Glass, Steph Marbury, Will Avery, Ndudi Ebi, Louis Bullock, Paul Grant, Felton Spencer, et al...

That's where the apathy comes in for many. They've been down this road before. Again and again.

I'm trying to understand your point about the young guys, abe. Are you saying that you were as excited about that group of 8 guys as you are about Wiggins/LaVine/Bennett/Muhammad/Dieng? The only rookie I was excited about in that woeful gang of 8 was Marbury. The reason apathy hasn't sunk in for me is that we now have 5 rookies and second year guys with more promise than most of the draft picks of the past. They're painful to watch at times, but all five have had games this year that showed what the future may have in store for us. I had to turn the game off at halftime last night, but I am patiently waiting for the return of Rubio and Martin, as I expect the last half of the season to be as fun as the first four games were.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

Nope, I plead not guilty. I think I have been relatively objective about all the draft picks you mention, and I see no comparison between the two groups...I'm much more excited about the current crop.

Marbury: Coney Island legend...I was completely on board when he joined the club, almost as much as I am about Wiggins now, but not quite. I bought into the hype and didn't realize what a knucklehead he was.

Marshall: Great scorer, but I never liked the pick. I didn't think he did anything especially well...soft, average shooter, average ball handler. I wasn't upset when he left the Wolves, and his mediocre career is about what I expected.

Glass: Another great college scorer, but there were a number of reasons he went late in the first round. I never get excited about guys drafted in the 20s, even if some of them pan out.

Ebi: A friend of mine was coaching the DeLaSalle defense when Ebi came to town to play them, so I went to the game. I was completely underwhelmed, and absolutely stunned when we drafted him so high.

Avery, Grant, Spencer. Bullock. Come on, abe...was anybody excited about any of these picks? Avery was another overrated Dukie that everyone knew wasn't going to be very good. I watched Paul Grant's pre-draft workout and thought he was unbelievably clumsy. As for Felton Spencer...how many guys that big need four years of college to get the NBA's interest. I was shocked when he went in the top ten. And as for Bullock, I honestly don't remember us drafting him. Maybe we did, but it had no impact on me.

Now, the current crop:

Wiggins: I've been following this guy since he was 14, and never thought he would ever be a T-Wolf...dream come true.

Bennett: If you look at the 2013 pre-draft discussion, you'll see how high I was on this guy. I wasn't at all surprised that the Cavs picked him number 1, but was stunned at his horrible rookie year. I think we have seen already the potential he has.

Muhammad: Like Wiggins and Marbury, this guy was on everyone's radar since he was a tyke, and I saw him live several times at UCLA. Sure, he had his flaws, but it was clear to me that he could be a big-time scorer in the NBA.

Dieng: I wasn't as excited about this pick because I thought he would be a defensive player only. But he has surprised me. Any comparisons of Deing to Grant and Spencer would be folly.

LaVine: I'm not as high on Zach as some are here. Again, I watched him a lot in college, and while you can't dispute his athleticism, he's the only one in this group of 5 that I have a difficult time projecting as an NBA starter.

I guess I don't see how the groups can be compared. Flip has added four lottery picks (2 of them #1's) and a NCAA champion center who has overachieved to our roster in just two years. I think I hear you saying that you were as excited about the eight guys you cite as the current group of five (hence the "hindsight" comment), but I find that comparison baffling.

I was taking a more macro look at the Wolves. I threw out a bunch of random draft picks. Some good. Some meh... some terrible.

You could add Jonny Flynn. Kevin Garnett. Wally Szczerbiak. Rashad McCants. Et al.

My point is that with EVERY single one of those guys, Wolves fans (not every Wolves fan, but many) talked themselves into the hopes and promises that each of them provided. For some, it was apparent before they ever stepped on the court that it wasn't going to pan out. Others, like McCants or Derrick Williams, probably still have their supporters.

The point is that when the ONLY thing a fanbase has to root for is the promise of a better tomorrow... it searches for every glimmer of hope. When you're only playing for the next season or the season after that... it's easier to see those glimmers and ignore all the warning signs and bad things that have the team playing so crappy in the present.

I don't mean to discount the mentality. It's probably needed by many fans. Or, why else even follow the team if it's so hopeless? But I tend to be pretty realistic and I draw on NBA history a lot when looking at prospects and developments.

Sorry if that makes many of my takes bleak. I'm sure I'm not the only fan who's followed the team since before Rick Mahorn refused to show up here. 26 years of seeing the 2nd worst franchise in the NBA stumble and start and stumble, stumble some more opens your eyes to certain things like the fool's gold promises offered by pinning a franchise's hopes on young, inconsistent athletes.


[Note: I'm totally giving Wiggins a bit of a pass. Because he does offer something different... he was considered the #1 (or #2) prospect just a few months ago. That's a novelty for Wolves basketball. While I'm disappointed in many parts of his game, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. (I have some semblance of a soul after all.) But I don't see another guy on the roster who stands out any more than the countless draft picks we've seen before when they were held up to highest promises after a big game.]