Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 2:08 pm

Carlos Danger wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 1:45 pm

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 7:57 am

DLO has his flaws, yet here he is along with Vando as a key rotation piece for a team in the 2nd round of the playoffs.

My opinion is this is part of the "sliding scale" of expectations. Anthony Davis and LeBron are driving that team. DLO is a complimentary piece. And there is nothing wrong with that (except his salary). When he was here, we were hoping for "All Star DLO" to carry us. That didn't happen. We might have to go through the same thing with Towns. These top draft pick guys understandably get saddled with HUGE expectations. They are often extended contracts based on potential vs. production. Some don't ever turn out to be stars, but still have OK careers (like DLO). Fans will forever compare them to their draft position/expectations. I could almost feel sorry for some of these guys until I see DLO has made over $100M by age 27. (insert Charlie Sheen "winning")

Understood, but I would argue that had KAT been healthy all year, DLO would have evolved into a complimentary piece in Minnesota as well this past season. His shot-making and ability to space the floor next to Ant in the waning weeks of his tenure were actually quite helpful to the offense.

I'm not knocking the trade we made, but my point is these guys who we pile all the blame on while here in Minnesota - Love, Rubio, Wiggins, DLO - often go on to be quite successful as equal or even lesser players on other teams. Again, I don't want to go rehash the merits of all these trades at the time they were made.

But relating this back to KAT....why can't he become a clear # 2 or potentially #3 guy while still in Minnesota? Why can this only happen if he moves elsewhere? Is he really blocking Ant's development? It certainly didn't look that way in the playoffs!

I don't know why but he once again was a flop in the playoffs. 3 tries, 3 flops. Do you think next time in a Wolves uniform will be different? He hasn't progressed almost at all in 8 years. I say trade him now before his trade value tanks to nothing.

KAT wasn’t a flop in this year’s playoffs or last. DLO was the only flop in last year’s playoffs. This year, we played a really good team without two key players - McDaniels and Naz. Yet we only lost the 5th game by 3 points.

The answer Q’s rhetorical question - There’s no reason KAT can’t be the #2 on a championship contender once Ant taps into his full potential as our #1 and Jaden becomes bona fide #3 or #2b. KAT was the best player on a Wolves team that finished 10 games over .500 last season and that was before Ant was playing at an all-star level and before McDaniels took the big step forward we saw from his this past season. Trading KAT because he could bring a lot in return is a legitimate point of view. But the notion that KAT should be traded because he’s a loser or not good enough to be a #2 on a contending team isn’t very persuasive.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 10:29 pm KAT wasn’t a flop in this year’s playoffs or last. DLO was the only flop in last year’s playoffs. This year, we played a really good team without two key players - McDaniels and Naz. Yet we only lost the 5th game by 3 points.

The answer Q’s rhetorical question - There’s no reason KAT can’t be the #2 on a championship contender once Ant taps into his full potential as our #1 and Jaden becomes bona fide #3 or #2b. KAT was the best player on a Wolves team that finished 10 games over .500 last season and that was before Ant was playing at an all-star level and before McDaniels took the big step forward we saw from his this past season. Trading KAT because he could bring a lot in return is a legitimate point of view. But the notion that KAT should be traded because he’s a loser or not good enough to be a #2 on a contending team isn’t very persuasive.

I'm really intrigued by Jaden's trajectory as a scorer and legit #3 or "2B" type option. The more guys we have that can exploit mis-matches and create offense for themselves, the more we can withstand poor performances from one of the other top options.

Last night the Celtics crushed the Sixers and Tatum had a TERRIBLE game - dare I say KAT-like playoff performance! Missed a bunch of shots and in foul trouble. Yet because they have multiple guys capable of creating offense and making shots without being sieve's on defense, they easily won.

Assuming we run it back next season, my hope is that Jaden absorbs some of the usage DLO had since Conley is clearly more of a game manager. That could bode well for our medium to long term prospects. But it also means we need bench defenders like NAW to take on some of the really tough matchups in order to give Jaden a break on that end.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 10:29 pm KAT wasn’t a flop in this year’s playoffs or last. DLO was the only flop in last year’s playoffs. This year, we played a really good team without two key players - McDaniels and Naz. Yet we only lost the 5th game by 3 points.

The answer Q’s rhetorical question - There’s no reason KAT can’t be the #2 on a championship contender once Ant taps into his full potential as our #1 and Jaden becomes bona fide #3 or #2b. KAT was the best player on a Wolves team that finished 10 games over .500 last season and that was before Ant was playing at an all-star level and before McDaniels took the big step forward we saw from his this past season. Trading KAT because he could bring a lot in return is a legitimate point of view. But the notion that KAT should be traded because he’s a loser or not good enough to be a #2 on a contending team isn’t very persuasive.

Yea, I'm also not too critical of KAT's playoff performance last year and this. We shouldn't discount how well Aaron Gordon defended him. especially in the first two games in Denver where he held him to 10 and 11 points. But despite stifling defense by Gordon, KAT averaged 23.3 and 10 the final three games and shot over 50% in all three. Look at what Gordon did to Durant last game...KD missed 17 out of his 27 shots. often with a hand in his face. While I'm not opposed to moving KAT in a trade that clearly makes us better, I agree that he can be a formidable #2 to emerging star Ant.

Towns in the playoffs. Whether he's been a "flop" or not depends on your definition of the word. But it's definitely been uneven, especially when compared to the regular season.

2018:
REG: 21.3 ppg / 12.3 reb / 2.4 apg / 54.5% fg / 42.1% 3fg / 1.9 TO
POST: 15.2 ppg /13.4 reb / 2.2 apg / 46.7% fg / 27.3% 3fg / 2.4 TO

2022:
REG: 24.6 ppg / 9.8 reb / 3.6 apg / 52.9% fg / 41% 3fg / 3.1 TO
POST: 21.8 ppg / 10.8 reb / 2.2 apg / 48.8% fg / 45.5% 3fg / 4.5 TO

2023:
REG: 20.8 ppg / 8.1 reb / 4.8 apg / 49.5% fg / 36.6% 3fg / 3.0 TO
POST: 18.2 ppg / 10.2 reb / 2.0 apg / 45.7% fg / 25.0% 3fg / 3.6 TO

Pretty much everything, from points and assists to efficiency have gone down significantly every time... (sans rebounding)

_________________

And then there are the clunkers. Inexplicably bad games.

The Wolves have never come close to winning a series, losing in Game 5 twice, and Game 6 once. That's 4 - 12... which would have made them the 2nd worst team in the NBA this season. And when you get beat soundly in the playoffs, sometimes the series is essentially over before it begins. Consider...

Game 1: 3 - 9 fg / 8 pts (loss)
Game 2: 2 - 9 fg / 5 points (loss)
Game 1: 11 - 18 fg / 29 points (win)
Game 2: 4 - 7 fg / 15 points (loss) ... followed by Game 3: 3 - 4 fg / 8 points (loss)
Game 1: 5 - 15 fg / 11 points (loss)
Game 2: 3 - 12 fg / 10 points (loss)

So in those important early series games that often dictate who moves on or goes home:

13.0 ppg
40% fg
1 win. 5 losses. (and only one game where Towns was better (or even close) to his regular season production.)

__________________

I think Towns gets hit with unfair and unnecessary criticism quite a bit. But, it's become pretty tough to try to sugarcoat those numbers above.

Every other max guy soon to make $50M will be taking a lot of heat if that was their playoff record.

No doubt KAT has been a disappointment in the playoffs. We need him to do better.

Still, the same question applies: Is there a scenario that trading KAT makes us better as a team? None of these other trades we make to get off someone we grow weary of (Wiggins, DLO, etc.) ever seem to help us much. Again, I'm not saying those were bad trades, but when it comes to KAT, I am simply not supportive of giving him up unless we think we can get a legit substantial return on him.

I thought Kiwi posted an intriguing 3-team deal in the other thread where DeJounte Murray comes back to us.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:23 am No doubt KAT has been a disappointment in the playoffs. We need him to do better.

Still, the same question applies: Is there a scenario that trading KAT makes us better as a team? None of these other trades we make to get off someone we grow weary of (Wiggins, DLO, etc.) ever seem to help us much. Again, I'm not saying those were bad trades, but when it comes to KAT, I am simply not supportive of giving him up unless we think we can get a legit substantial return on him.

I thought Kiwi posted an intriguing 3-team deal in the other thread where DeJounte Murray comes back to us.

As a guy who preferred Murray (or other wing/guard) over Gobert last summer, sure.

But I also just posted about why that trade doesn't seem to work for Atlanta.

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As for Towns, I'm torn on whether to trade him or not. I can probably be talked into either scenario. I was just posting his stats to show that the "Towns has struggled in the playoffs" narrative has legit juice to it.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Wed May 03, 2023 10:29 pm KAT wasn’t a flop in this year’s playoffs or last. DLO was the only flop in last year’s playoffs. This year, we played a really good team without two key players - McDaniels and Naz. Yet we only lost the 5th game by 3 points.

The answer Q’s rhetorical question - There’s no reason KAT can’t be the #2 on a championship contender once Ant taps into his full potential as our #1 and Jaden becomes bona fide #3 or #2b. KAT was the best player on a Wolves team that finished 10 games over .500 last season and that was before Ant was playing at an all-star level and before McDaniels took the big step forward we saw from his this past season. Trading KAT because he could bring a lot in return is a legitimate point of view. But the notion that KAT should be traded because he’s a loser or not good enough to be a #2 on a contending team isn’t very persuasive.

Are you kidding me? Every other game he is straight trash in the playoffs. You can't do that being the supposed best player on the team. He fouls out / doesn't score / play defense. He has had some great games too, don't get me wrong, but he has had 50% flops and you can't have that being the "top" guy. I have zero confidence he will ever turn it around as a Wolves player.

If he was consistently good to great like he should be we wouldn't go one and done in every playoff series. He has been directly tied to losses.

DLO was worse then a flop. He was super garbage and unplayable.

Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu May 04, 2023 10:23 am No doubt KAT has been a disappointment in the playoffs. We need him to do better.

Still, the same question applies: Is there a scenario that trading KAT makes us better as a team? None of these other trades we make to get off someone we grow weary of (Wiggins, DLO, etc.) ever seem to help us much. Again, I'm not saying those were bad trades, but when it comes to KAT, I am simply not supportive of giving him up unless we think we can get a legit substantial return on him.

I thought Kiwi posted an intriguing 3-team deal in the other thread where DeJounte Murray comes back to us.

The problem is that history tells us as a Wolves player he has been the direct reason we haven't won by half the time playing garbage in the playoffs. I have zero confidence in him in high pressure games at this point.

I love Vando but we are seeing all of his weaknesses tonight