Rudy trade ideas

[Lipoli390]

I think, if the Wolves don’t move KAT this offseason, they wait until next offseason to move Rudy, unless someone blows them away with an offer. The reason I think they wait is that I think Rudy needs to rehabilitate his value around the league, before the Wolves move on from him. I think Lip thinks he’s in decline, but Rudy started this past season dragging ass and perhaps injured after playing overseas, then had to get used to a bunch of new teammates… he was pretty good after the All Star break. He needs to remind folks of the player he’s been before coming to the Wolves, though no one is worth what the Wolves gave up in terms of draft capital:

3× NBA All-Star (2020–2022)
All-NBA Second Team (2017)
3× All-NBA Third Team (2019–2021)
3× NBA Defensive Player of the Year (2018, 2019, 2021)
6× NBA All-Defensive First Team (2017–2022)
NBA rebounding leader (2022)

Yeah, I agree that this summer is the wrong time to move Gobert. I think we tend to undervalue Rudy here, and I'm afraid we would be selling (way) low if we moved him this summer. In my opinion, Rudy impacts the game on the defensive end the way an elite offensive player impacts the game on the offensive end. That's too important an asset to give away without a proper return.

As Kekgeek has thoroughly documented, our defense was atrocious when Rudy wasn't in the game. Lip needs to outline to us how we ensure we don't fall off a cliff defensively if Rudy gets moved!

But in Lip's defense, no matter what Ant says publicly or whether he makes some goodwill gesture by traveling to France this summer, none of that means shit if he refuses to pass the ball to Rudy. The lack of on-court chemistry between Ant and Rudy really hurts the offense and I don't think it gets better. And even if Ant becomes a more willing passer, Rudy needs a clinician to get him the ball in places where he doesn't fumble it away or get stripped. Ant is just not at that level yet.



It's a real dilemma....

I don’t have to speculate on the Wolves defense without Rudy. We have an entire prior NBA season without Rudy as evidence that this team would be fine defensively without him. We won 46 games without Rudy and had the 13th ranked defense. We climbed all the way up to 10 this season with Rudy, Ant and Jaden playing the vast majority of games. Also, note that Edwards wasn’t nearly as good defensively two seasons ago as he was last season. Jaden was very good defensively two seasons ago, but he’s even better now. We didn’t have Slo Mo that season either. We had Vando and Beverley to help defensively. Surely we can use cap exceptions to sign a player or two like Vando or Beverley. Re-signing NAW will help our defense as well.

Comparing on-off stats in a season is fraught. Looking at an entire season without Rudy is much more telling and what it shows us is that the Wolves would be really dumb to hang onto Rudy out of fear that the team’s defense would fall apart. We’d have essentially the same team we had two seasons ago but with a much improved Edwards and Jaden on both ends of the floor. We’d also have Slo Mo and NAW. We could probably sign Beverley or Vando for the BAE as defensive rotation players off the bench. Oh, and we’d be back to a #8 rather than a #23 offense.

[TheFuture]

Magic: Cole Anthony, Wendell Carter Jr., Caleb Houstan, #11

MN: Gobert

Unlikely but not a terrible idea for the Magic. Fultz, Wagner, and Banchero is a nice young trio. Add Gobert, 20mil+ Cap, Harris, Isaac, Suggs, #6 pick. That is a competitive team in the East.

They are a team to target that has to thin out and push to be competitive.

That’s the sort of plausible Gobert deal I envision that could help avoid the luxury tax cliff and bring in some valuable assets. Orlando has three picks this year - ## 6, 11 and 36. They’re already overloaded with young talent and I don’t think they can or would want to absorb three more draft prospects. They’re also overloaded at the PG position with young PGs.

I think the following would be a better and equally, if not more, plausible Orlando trade for Gobert:

Orlando Gets: Gobert + Knight + the Wolves #53 pick in this year’s draft

Wolves Get:
- Carter Jr.
- Suggs
- Picks 11 and 36 in this year’s draft

Why would Orland do it? To get a defensive vet who would complement Panchero, their offensive-oriented budding all-star PF. They’d still have a bevy of young talent along with the #6 pick in this year’s draft to take another talented prospect or to trade for a really good veteran. Orlando wouldn’t be giving up much. Carter is good, but Rudy would be an upgrade. Knight would give them young athletic big with upside. Suggs is the least of their many young PGs.

What’s in it for MN? We’d save $21.8 million in 2024, which would give the Wolves plenty of room under the luxury tax 2nd apron to keep KAT, re-sign Naz and NAW, extend Ant and Jaden, and fill out the entire roster with good players without risking any penalties. We’d have a 2-season test run with Suggs to see if he can become Conley’s successor. And Wendell Carter is a very solid big whose salary actually goes down slightly over the remainder of his contract. He’d be insurance in the event the Wolves want to trade KAT next summer. He could also be a very good trade asset. I don’t know that we could get both #11 and 36, but I would think we could get #11 or get #36 along with a future protected 1st. Even pick 36 should have a lot of value in hands of TC if he’s all he’s cracked up to be.

Sure, add Knight and #53 as well. I wouldn't ask for anything else in return.

The Magic are in a spot where they have to decide on Fultz and Anthony immediately, Suggs a year later. That is just at PG. They also have to think about what to do with Isaac, Franz pay-day, Bol, Moritz, Gary Harris, a #6 pick.

Fultz is panning out at PG. Franz is a cornerstone SF moving forward. Banchero is a potential star at PF.

Adding Gobert to that core would be really interesting for them.

I prefer Anthony over Suggs because of Anthony's Point of Attack defensive ability and the likelihood that the Magic would move him before Suggs because of the aforementioned decisions they need to make.

I think both teams benefit in that trade overall.

[Q-is-here]

Yeah, I agree that this summer is the wrong time to move Gobert. I think we tend to undervalue Rudy here, and I'm afraid we would be selling (way) low if we moved him this summer. In my opinion, Rudy impacts the game on the defensive end the way an elite offensive player impacts the game on the offensive end. That's too important an asset to give away without a proper return.

As Kekgeek has thoroughly documented, our defense was atrocious when Rudy wasn't in the game. Lip needs to outline to us how we ensure we don't fall off a cliff defensively if Rudy gets moved!

But in Lip's defense, no matter what Ant says publicly or whether he makes some goodwill gesture by traveling to France this summer, none of that means shit if he refuses to pass the ball to Rudy. The lack of on-court chemistry between Ant and Rudy really hurts the offense and I don't think it gets better. And even if Ant becomes a more willing passer, Rudy needs a clinician to get him the ball in places where he doesn't fumble it away or get stripped. Ant is just not at that level yet.



It's a real dilemma....

I don’t have to speculate on the Wolves defense without Rudy. We have an entire prior NBA season without Rudy as evidence that this team would be fine defensively without him. We won 46 games without Rudy and had the 13th ranked defense. We climbed all the way up to 10 this season with Rudy, Ant and Jaden playing the vast majority of games. Also, note that Edwards wasn’t nearly as good defensively two seasons ago as he was last season. Jaden was very good defensively two seasons ago, but he’s even better now. We didn’t have Slo Mo that season either. We had Vando and Beverley to help defensively. Surely we can use cap exceptions to sign a player or two like Vando or Beverley. Re-signing NAW will help our defense as well.

Comparing on-off stats in a season is fraught. Looking at an entire season without Rudy is much more telling and what it shows us is that the Wolves would be really dumb to hang onto Rudy out of fear that the team’s defense would fall apart. We’d have essentially the same team we had two seasons ago but with a much improved Edwards and Jaden on both ends of the floor. We’d also have Slo Mo and NAW. We could probably sign Beverley or Vando for the BAE as defensive rotation players off the bench. Oh, and we’d be back to a #8 rather than a #23 offense.

That defense from the season before last was a bit of smoke and mirrors that benefited from an injury ravaged Western Conference. We don't need to go into all the gory details, but let's just say this past season was a much deeper and stronger Western Conference in that far fewer teams were as injury-laden as the year before. So I think the Wolves' defense was better than simply just moving up a few spots in the overall rankings. They did that while playing against healthier teams.

Utah didn't seem to have any problem generating plenty of offense with Gobert as its Center. They were consistently a top 10 offensive team. Finch, Ant, and Rudy himself need to fix this side of the ball assuming they run it back.

[Lipoli390]

As Kekgeek has thoroughly documented, our defense was atrocious when Rudy wasn't in the game. Lip needs to outline to us how we ensure we don't fall off a cliff defensively if Rudy gets moved!

But in Lip's defense, no matter what Ant says publicly or whether he makes some goodwill gesture by traveling to France this summer, none of that means shit if he refuses to pass the ball to Rudy. The lack of on-court chemistry between Ant and Rudy really hurts the offense and I don't think it gets better. And even if Ant becomes a more willing passer, Rudy needs a clinician to get him the ball in places where he doesn't fumble it away or get stripped. Ant is just not at that level yet.



It's a real dilemma....

I don’t have to speculate on the Wolves defense without Rudy. We have an entire prior NBA season without Rudy as evidence that this team would be fine defensively without him. We won 46 games without Rudy and had the 13th ranked defense. We climbed all the way up to 10 this season with Rudy, Ant and Jaden playing the vast majority of games. Also, note that Edwards wasn’t nearly as good defensively two seasons ago as he was last season. Jaden was very good defensively two seasons ago, but he’s even better now. We didn’t have Slo Mo that season either. We had Vando and Beverley to help defensively. Surely we can use cap exceptions to sign a player or two like Vando or Beverley. Re-signing NAW will help our defense as well.

Comparing on-off stats in a season is fraught. Looking at an entire season without Rudy is much more telling and what it shows us is that the Wolves would be really dumb to hang onto Rudy out of fear that the team’s defense would fall apart. We’d have essentially the same team we had two seasons ago but with a much improved Edwards and Jaden on both ends of the floor. We’d also have Slo Mo and NAW. We could probably sign Beverley or Vando for the BAE as defensive rotation players off the bench. Oh, and we’d be back to a #8 rather than a #23 offense.

That defense from the season before last was a bit of smoke and mirrors that benefited from an injury ravaged Western Conference. We don't need to go into all the gory details, but let's just say this past season was a much deeper and stronger Western Conference in that far fewer teams were as injury-laden as the year before. So I think the Wolves' defense was better than simply just moving up a few spots in the overall rankings. They did that while playing against healthier teams.

Utah didn't seem to have any problem generating plenty of offense with Gobert as its Center. They were consistently a top 10 offensive team. Finch, Ant, and Rudy himself need to fix this side of the ball assuming they run it back.

I disagree with your premise that the West was stronger this past season than the season before. In fact, I think the West was weaker overall this past season. Golden State and Dallas were both significantly better the prior season. The Suns were definitely better as well. I also think the Grizzlies were better. And I’ll reiterate that Ant and Jaden weren’t as good the prior season. In fact, Ant wasn’t nearly as good defensively. And we didn’t have Slo Mo. The fact is that the Wolves were not a bad defensive team two seasons ago over an 82 game sample size. It’s a big stretch to conclude otherwise based on speculation related to injuries on some teams.

Regarding the offense, we just had an entire season in which Rudy, Ant and Jaden played the vast majority of games together and we were the 23rd rated offensive team in the League. I can’t explain what happened in Utah, but I know what I saw last season and the numbers ultimately tell the tale. Watching our players going out of their way to give Rudy passes he could handle was frustrating for me as a fan. And obviously it was frustrating for his teammates as evidenced by reports about DLO’s criticism, by Ant’s reluctance to pass him the ball and some comments he made, and by Slo MO’s tirade on the sideline, which must have been the result of building frustration over time. I’ll add that there must be a good reason why Donovan Mitchell wasn’t fond of Rudy as a teammate. Maybe it’s fixable, but that’s speculative. In any event, it boggles my mind that anyone would believe Rudy is worth anything close to $40 million per year in today’s NBA. He’ll be earning $43.8 million in the 2024-25 season.

[TheFuture]

As Kekgeek has thoroughly documented, our defense was atrocious when Rudy wasn't in the game. Lip needs to outline to us how we ensure we don't fall off a cliff defensively if Rudy gets moved!

But in Lip's defense, no matter what Ant says publicly or whether he makes some goodwill gesture by traveling to France this summer, none of that means shit if he refuses to pass the ball to Rudy. The lack of on-court chemistry between Ant and Rudy really hurts the offense and I don't think it gets better. And even if Ant becomes a more willing passer, Rudy needs a clinician to get him the ball in places where he doesn't fumble it away or get stripped. Ant is just not at that level yet.



It's a real dilemma....

I don’t have to speculate on the Wolves defense without Rudy. We have an entire prior NBA season without Rudy as evidence that this team would be fine defensively without him. We won 46 games without Rudy and had the 13th ranked defense. We climbed all the way up to 10 this season with Rudy, Ant and Jaden playing the vast majority of games. Also, note that Edwards wasn’t nearly as good defensively two seasons ago as he was last season. Jaden was very good defensively two seasons ago, but he’s even better now. We didn’t have Slo Mo that season either. We had Vando and Beverley to help defensively. Surely we can use cap exceptions to sign a player or two like Vando or Beverley. Re-signing NAW will help our defense as well.

Comparing on-off stats in a season is fraught. Looking at an entire season without Rudy is much more telling and what it shows us is that the Wolves would be really dumb to hang onto Rudy out of fear that the team’s defense would fall apart. We’d have essentially the same team we had two seasons ago but with a much improved Edwards and Jaden on both ends of the floor. We’d also have Slo Mo and NAW. We could probably sign Beverley or Vando for the BAE as defensive rotation players off the bench. Oh, and we’d be back to a #8 rather than a #23 offense.

That defense from the season before last was a bit of smoke and mirrors that benefited from an injury ravaged Western Conference. We don't need to go into all the gory details, but let's just say this past season was a much deeper and stronger Western Conference in that far fewer teams were as injury-laden as the year before. So I think the Wolves' defense was better than simply just moving up a few spots in the overall rankings. They did that while playing against healthier teams.

Utah didn't seem to have any problem generating plenty of offense with Gobert as its Center. They were consistently a top 10 offensive team. Finch, Ant, and Rudy himself need to fix this side of the ball assuming they run it back.

Defense is the most manipulated stat in the NBA. The refereeing has far too much control on that end. A tap on the hand can be a no-call or a call, with no actual line drawn. The ruling is completely fluid. Complete dictation of outcome given to the refs. That is why you will see a player go from say 19th to 78th. Or the same team from 9th to 18th.

[mjs34]

I don’t have to speculate on the Wolves defense without Rudy. We have an entire prior NBA season without Rudy as evidence that this team would be fine defensively without him. We won 46 games without Rudy and had the 13th ranked defense. We climbed all the way up to 10 this season with Rudy, Ant and Jaden playing the vast majority of games. Also, note that Edwards wasn’t nearly as good defensively two seasons ago as he was last season. Jaden was very good defensively two seasons ago, but he’s even better now. We didn’t have Slo Mo that season either. We had Vando and Beverley to help defensively. Surely we can use cap exceptions to sign a player or two like Vando or Beverley. Re-signing NAW will help our defense as well.

Comparing on-off stats in a season is fraught. Looking at an entire season without Rudy is much more telling and what it shows us is that the Wolves would be really dumb to hang onto Rudy out of fear that the team’s defense would fall apart. We’d have essentially the same team we had two seasons ago but with a much improved Edwards and Jaden on both ends of the floor. We’d also have Slo Mo and NAW. We could probably sign Beverley or Vando for the BAE as defensive rotation players off the bench. Oh, and we’d be back to a #8 rather than a #23 offense.

That defense from the season before last was a bit of smoke and mirrors that benefited from an injury ravaged Western Conference. We don't need to go into all the gory details, but let's just say this past season was a much deeper and stronger Western Conference in that far fewer teams were as injury-laden as the year before. So I think the Wolves' defense was better than simply just moving up a few spots in the overall rankings. They did that while playing against healthier teams.

Utah didn't seem to have any problem generating plenty of offense with Gobert as its Center. They were consistently a top 10 offensive team. Finch, Ant, and Rudy himself need to fix this side of the ball assuming they run it back.

I disagree with your premise that the West was stronger this past season than the season before. In fact, I think the West was weaker overall this past season. Golden State and Dallas were both significantly better the prior season. The Suns were definitely better as well. I also think the Grizzlies were better. And I’ll reiterate that Ant and Jaden weren’t as good the prior season. In fact, Ant wasn’t nearly as good defensively. And we didn’t have Slo Mo. The fact is that the Wolves were not a bad defensive team two seasons ago over an 82 game sample size. It’s a big stretch to conclude otherwise based on speculation related to injuries on some teams.

Regarding the offense, we just had an entire season in which Rudy, Ant and Jaden played the vast majority of games together and we were the 23rd rated offensive team in the League. I can’t explain what happened in Utah, but I know what I saw last season and the numbers ultimately tell the tale. Watching our players going out of their way to give Rudy passes he could handle was frustrating for me as a fan. And obviously it was frustrating for his teammates as evidenced by reports about DLO’s criticism, by Ant’s reluctance to pass him the ball and some comments he made, and by Slo MO’s tirade on the sideline, which must have been the result of building frustration over time. I’ll add that there must be a good reason why Donovan Mitchell wasn’t fond of Rudy as a teammate. Maybe it’s fixable, but that’s speculative. In any event, it boggles my mind that anyone would believe Rudy is worth anything close to $40 million per year in today’s NBA. He’ll be earning $43.8 million in the 2024-25 season.

It seems that you are debating over an issue that doesn't really exist. The defensive rating would be affected for all teams playing the the western conference, so there is no reason to expect the rankings to change significantly.

With respect to the offensive end, it may simply be a difference in how the players fit and I can't see how it makes sense to rebuild our roster to satisfy Rudy.

I have to agree with Lip's POV on this.

We can't take back the worst trade in the history of sports (that's for you Q), but we can try and fix what we have. We know we are going to have cap problems two years from now, and it seems obvious that Rudy is the most difficult to build around, is on the downside of his career, and is drastically overpaid.

[Q-is-here]

That defense from the season before last was a bit of smoke and mirrors that benefited from an injury ravaged Western Conference. We don't need to go into all the gory details, but let's just say this past season was a much deeper and stronger Western Conference in that far fewer teams were as injury-laden as the year before. So I think the Wolves' defense was better than simply just moving up a few spots in the overall rankings. They did that while playing against healthier teams.

Utah didn't seem to have any problem generating plenty of offense with Gobert as its Center. They were consistently a top 10 offensive team. Finch, Ant, and Rudy himself need to fix this side of the ball assuming they run it back.

I disagree with your premise that the West was stronger this past season than the season before. In fact, I think the West was weaker overall this past season. Golden State and Dallas were both significantly better the prior season. The Suns were definitely better as well. I also think the Grizzlies were better. And I’ll reiterate that Ant and Jaden weren’t as good the prior season. In fact, Ant wasn’t nearly as good defensively. And we didn’t have Slo Mo. The fact is that the Wolves were not a bad defensive team two seasons ago over an 82 game sample size. It’s a big stretch to conclude otherwise based on speculation related to injuries on some teams.

Regarding the offense, we just had an entire season in which Rudy, Ant and Jaden played the vast majority of games together and we were the 23rd rated offensive team in the League. I can’t explain what happened in Utah, but I know what I saw last season and the numbers ultimately tell the tale. Watching our players going out of their way to give Rudy passes he could handle was frustrating for me as a fan. And obviously it was frustrating for his teammates as evidenced by reports about DLO’s criticism, by Ant’s reluctance to pass him the ball and some comments he made, and by Slo MO’s tirade on the sideline, which must have been the result of building frustration over time. I’ll add that there must be a good reason why Donovan Mitchell wasn’t fond of Rudy as a teammate. Maybe it’s fixable, but that’s speculative. In any event, it boggles my mind that anyone would believe Rudy is worth anything close to $40 million per year in today’s NBA. He’ll be earning $43.8 million in the 2024-25 season.

It seems that you are debating over an issue that doesn't really exist. The defensive rating would be affected for all teams playing the the western conference, so there is no reason to expect the rankings to change significantly.

With respect to the offensive end, it may simply be a difference in how the players fit and I can't see how it makes sense to rebuild our roster to satisfy Rudy.

I have to agree with Lip's POV on this.

We can't take back the worst trade in the history of sports (that's for you Q), but we can try and fix what we have. We know we are going to have cap problems two years from now, and it seems obvious that Rudy is the most difficult to build around, is on the downside of his career, and is drastically overpaid.

But aren't those the same reasons NOT to trade him, i.e. we won't get any sort of positive return.

I also think one of the tweaks the front office and coaching staff can make is to completely abandon any notion that Gobert can be used as an offensive weapon other than what comes most naturally through the flow of play. In other words, no post-ups and less force-feeding him the ball unless there is a blatantly obvious advantage where he can simply catch and dunk it.

Rudy is still an elite screen setter and elite paint protector. He can absolutely be a positive asset for this team with a few changes in how he's utilized.

[Lipoli390]

I disagree with your premise that the West was stronger this past season than the season before. In fact, I think the West was weaker overall this past season. Golden State and Dallas were both significantly better the prior season. The Suns were definitely better as well. I also think the Grizzlies were better. And I’ll reiterate that Ant and Jaden weren’t as good the prior season. In fact, Ant wasn’t nearly as good defensively. And we didn’t have Slo Mo. The fact is that the Wolves were not a bad defensive team two seasons ago over an 82 game sample size. It’s a big stretch to conclude otherwise based on speculation related to injuries on some teams.

Regarding the offense, we just had an entire season in which Rudy, Ant and Jaden played the vast majority of games together and we were the 23rd rated offensive team in the League. I can’t explain what happened in Utah, but I know what I saw last season and the numbers ultimately tell the tale. Watching our players going out of their way to give Rudy passes he could handle was frustrating for me as a fan. And obviously it was frustrating for his teammates as evidenced by reports about DLO’s criticism, by Ant’s reluctance to pass him the ball and some comments he made, and by Slo MO’s tirade on the sideline, which must have been the result of building frustration over time. I’ll add that there must be a good reason why Donovan Mitchell wasn’t fond of Rudy as a teammate. Maybe it’s fixable, but that’s speculative. In any event, it boggles my mind that anyone would believe Rudy is worth anything close to $40 million per year in today’s NBA. He’ll be earning $43.8 million in the 2024-25 season.

It seems that you are debating over an issue that doesn't really exist. The defensive rating would be affected for all teams playing the the western conference, so there is no reason to expect the rankings to change significantly.

With respect to the offensive end, it may simply be a difference in how the players fit and I can't see how it makes sense to rebuild our roster to satisfy Rudy.

I have to agree with Lip's POV on this.

We can't take back the worst trade in the history of sports (that's for you Q), but we can try and fix what we have. We know we are going to have cap problems two years from now, and it seems obvious that Rudy is the most difficult to build around, is on the downside of his career, and is drastically overpaid.

But aren't those the same reasons NOT to trade him, i.e. we won't get any sort of positive return.

I also think one of the tweaks the front office and coaching staff can make is to completely abandon any notion that Gobert can be used as an offensive weapon other than what comes most naturally through the flow of play. In other words, no post-ups and less force-feeding him the ball unless there is a blatantly obvious advantage where he can simply catch and dunk it.

Rudy is still an elite screen setter and elite paint protector. He can absolutely be a positive asset for this team with a few changes in how he's utilized.

It gets pretty circular, Q. If you’re right that the “can absolutely be a positive asset for this team” then he can be at least as much of a positive asset for other teams - especially those that don’t already have a center. In other words, if you’re right, then Rudy has trade value and would bring a positive return. If you’re wrong then we should definitely trade him just to avoid hitting the putative luxury tax cliff in 2024.

As for Rudy’s positive value to the Wolves, I agree that a key would be getting the organization to stop trying to make him play a prominent offensive role that he’s ill-suited for and has never played before. But it’s clear that the Rudy deal was premised in part on the fantasy that he could play a far more central role offensively than he’s played before. It’s also apparent that Rudy WANTS a more prominent offensive role. It’s apparent in his conduct on the court, repeatedly calling for the ball in the paint. It’s also pretty apparent as part of what alienated Donovan Mitchell. I acknowledge Rudy’s defensive impact, but I think it’s overstated. Moreover, his defensive impact is blunted in part by pairing him with KAT because it requires KAT to guard modern PFs in space, which he’s not equipped to do. Vando was the right type of PF to pair with KAT. The right move was to replace Vando with a better version of Vando.

So even if the organization and Rudy both accept a reduced role for him offensively, just having a positive impact won’t be good enough to justify paying him over $40 million a year for three more years.

[Q-is-here]

It seems that you are debating over an issue that doesn't really exist. The defensive rating would be affected for all teams playing the the western conference, so there is no reason to expect the rankings to change significantly.

With respect to the offensive end, it may simply be a difference in how the players fit and I can't see how it makes sense to rebuild our roster to satisfy Rudy.

I have to agree with Lip's POV on this.

We can't take back the worst trade in the history of sports (that's for you Q), but we can try and fix what we have. We know we are going to have cap problems two years from now, and it seems obvious that Rudy is the most difficult to build around, is on the downside of his career, and is drastically overpaid.

But aren't those the same reasons NOT to trade him, i.e. we won't get any sort of positive return.

I also think one of the tweaks the front office and coaching staff can make is to completely abandon any notion that Gobert can be used as an offensive weapon other than what comes most naturally through the flow of play. In other words, no post-ups and less force-feeding him the ball unless there is a blatantly obvious advantage where he can simply catch and dunk it.

Rudy is still an elite screen setter and elite paint protector. He can absolutely be a positive asset for this team with a few changes in how he's utilized.

It gets pretty circular, Q. If you’re right that the “can absolutely be a positive asset for this team” then he can be at least as much of a positive asset for other teams - especially those that don’t already have a center. In other words, if you’re right, then Rudy has trade value and would bring a positive return. If you’re wrong then we should definitely trade him just to avoid hitting the putative luxury tax cliff in 2024.

As for Rudy’s positive value to the Wolves, I agree that a key would be getting the organization to stop trying to make him play a prominent offensive role that he’s ill-suited for and has never played before. But it’s clear that the Rudy deal was premised in part on the fantasy that he could play a far more central role offensively than he’s played before. It’s also apparent that Rudy WANTS a more prominent offensive role. It’s apparent in his conduct on the court, repeatedly calling for the ball in the paint. It’s also pretty apparent as part of what alienated Donovan Mitchell. I acknowledge Rudy’s defensive impact, but I think it’s overstated. Moreover, his defensive impact is blunted in part by pairing him with KAT because it requires KAT to guard modern PFs in space, which he’s not equipped to do. Vando was the right type of PF to pair with KAT. The right move was to replace Vando with a better version of Vando.

So even if the organization and Rudy both accept a reduced role for him offensively, just having a positive impact won’t be good enough to justify paying him over $40 million a year for three more years.

But guess what else KAT isn't equipped to do? Guard bruising centers night in and night out and provide strong paint protection. We saw for years how he struggles with this. And Vando was a problem because he is such an offensive liability. He eventually gets played off the floor the deeper into the playoffs he goes. Just look at how his minutes dwindled with each successive playoff series he was in this year. He was good for us going from bad team to solid team. We need to now go from solid to great.

KAT's issues playing full time Center was the whole reason we got Gobert! I'll again defer to Kekgeek to share the defensive stats for when Rudy and KAT played together. I believe they were elite, despite KAT's weaknesses as a modern day defensive 4.

I do think there is validity in some in-between solution, where a Gobert trade would bring back a big-bodied defensive Center, but just not one that gets paid as much and perhaps is more of a 25 MPG type of player. Like a Kevon Looney type.

[TheFuture]

I think the easiest explanation is that both have serious faults, and moving KAT is more likely to benefit the Wolves' transition to building around Ant. It has to happen, will happen, and there is not a better time than now. KAT being a 36 mil hit vs. 45+, new CBA, looming big extensions for Ant and Jaden, negotiating with Prince and Anderson, UFAs in Reid and NAW right now, no answer at PG beyond Conley, limited draft picks. Moving Gobert just puts the team back to where they were before trading for Gobert and with less assets.