Minott & Miller

[Q-is-here]

Yep, it can be confusing - at least to me. . I looked at Miller’s stats more closely after your prior post and noticed the improvements you’re referring to. I like his improved stats except for his plus/minus which became far worse than the previous season and one of the worst on Iowa Wolves. And I have a hard time unseeing his complete lack of defensive effort in the video clips I’ve seen. His talent is really high and I’m not ready to write him off. But he has to show a competitive fire that might not be there.

Now that I’m reading the stats correctly, I’m still confused by how few G-League games Minott played last season compared to Miller. I noticed that Minott played more NBA games than Miller last season but Minott only averaged 2.8 meaningless minutes per game. For sake of his development, Minott should have logged at least 20 G-League games like Miller last season.

I will say that both of the last 2 seasons there were G-league games that the Wolves likely had Minott active because of injuries especially to Towns.

Q and others who watched Iowa games can speak to this more but it just seemed like that team was kind of a disaster in a number of ways which seems obvious since they were 13-37 including their not terrible 6-10 showcase record. Poor rebounding numbers for a few guys and the team as a whole which to some extent wasn't surprising since they didn't have much size at the big spots much of the season. They were 31st in defense. It looks like they did some positive things offensively but it didn't seem like things went well at all. Will they stick with that coach or maybe they realized they needed to actually add some size which they did signing Edwards? To me I sorta have to question the development of some players especially defensively in Iowa last year. We're the players part of the problem? Sure but we have seen bad coaching at the NBA level so it could be an issue in Iowa too. They need to get that figured out. Maybe they need a better defensive coach down there.

I think you’re right about having Minott active in a number of games because of KAT’s injury. But his 2.8 minutes per game tells me it would have been far more sensible to have Minott playing games in the G-League for sake of his development.

Then again, you make a great point about how terrible our G-League team was last season. In that sense, perhaps more G-League time for Minott would NOT have furthered his development. . I have no idea why the Iowa Wolves were so bad, but I suspect some if not most of it had something to do with poor coaching. If up to me, I would replace the Iowa head coach and coaching staff going into next season.

Miller had a Net Rating of -13.7 during the G-League Regular Season (of which Miller played in 20 of them, so decent sample size). That was worst among the starters. He had the worst D-Rating of the starters at 122.1.

Leonard Miller also had the worst net rating among the starters in the 11 Showcase games he played in, at -7.3.

Yes, he does produce some nice counting stats in terms of points, rebounds, assists, etc. But his defense was so awful that it torpedoed whatever other good things he did on the court.

Minott is a similar story, but not quite as dramatically bad.

A classic Miller defensive play would be to jump out on screens (a hard show, if you will) and then do.....nothing. You guys know that when playing a high wall defense the big guy has to actually hustle back to his man or whoever the defense rotated off of to cover his guy (usually the low man). It's a solid defensive strategy when you have Centers that are fleet-of-foot. Miller couldn't be bothered to recover to his man or anyone else for that matter after the initial hedge.

Kek already outlined Minott's defensive deficiencies.

[Lipoli390]

I will say that both of the last 2 seasons there were G-league games that the Wolves likely had Minott active because of injuries especially to Towns.

Q and others who watched Iowa games can speak to this more but it just seemed like that team was kind of a disaster in a number of ways which seems obvious since they were 13-37 including their not terrible 6-10 showcase record. Poor rebounding numbers for a few guys and the team as a whole which to some extent wasn't surprising since they didn't have much size at the big spots much of the season. They were 31st in defense. It looks like they did some positive things offensively but it didn't seem like things went well at all. Will they stick with that coach or maybe they realized they needed to actually add some size which they did signing Edwards? To me I sorta have to question the development of some players especially defensively in Iowa last year. We're the players part of the problem? Sure but we have seen bad coaching at the NBA level so it could be an issue in Iowa too. They need to get that figured out. Maybe they need a better defensive coach down there.

I think you’re right about having Minott active in a number of games because of KAT’s injury. But his 2.8 minutes per game tells me it would have been far more sensible to have Minott playing games in the G-League for sake of his development.

Then again, you make a great point about how terrible our G-League team was last season. In that sense, perhaps more G-League time for Minott would NOT have furthered his development. . I have no idea why the Iowa Wolves were so bad, but I suspect some if not most of it had something to do with poor coaching. If up to me, I would replace the Iowa head coach and coaching staff going into next season.

Miller had a Net Rating of -13.7 during the G-League Regular Season (of which Miller played in 20 of them, so decent sample size). That was worst among the starters. He had the worst D-Rating of the starters at 122.1.

Leonard Miller also had the worst net rating among the starters in the 11 Showcase games he played in, at -7.3.

Yes, he does produce some nice counting stats in terms of points, rebounds, assists, etc. But his defense was so awful that it torpedoed whatever other good things he did on the court.

Minott is a similar story, but not quite as dramatically bad.

A classic Miller defensive play would be to jump out on screens (a hard show, if you will) and then do.....nothing. You guys know that when playing a high wall defense the big guy has to actually hustle back to his man or whoever the defense rotated off of to cover his guy (usually the low man). It's a solid defensive strategy when you have Centers that are fleet-of-foot. Miller couldn't be bothered to recover to his man or anyone else for that matter after the initial hedge.

Kek already outlined Minott's defensive deficiencies.

Yep. Millers plus/minus was horrifically bad and speaks volumes about how far off his is. When I put his disinterested defense together with his behavior clowning around with Moore on the Wolves bench in close playoff games, I start to see a Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams bust in in his future unless he turns things around soon. Miller is really talented, but so were Johnson and Williams.

I continue to believe that Minott’s defense will be fine. And I love that he was the only one among our young guys who completely ignored and declined to join the Wendell Moore sideline clown show.

[Q-is-here]

I think you’re right about having Minott active in a number of games because of KAT’s injury. But his 2.8 minutes per game tells me it would have been far more sensible to have Minott playing games in the G-League for sake of his development.

Then again, you make a great point about how terrible our G-League team was last season. In that sense, perhaps more G-League time for Minott would NOT have furthered his development. . I have no idea why the Iowa Wolves were so bad, but I suspect some if not most of it had something to do with poor coaching. If up to me, I would replace the Iowa head coach and coaching staff going into next season.

Miller had a Net Rating of -13.7 during the G-League Regular Season (of which Miller played in 20 of them, so decent sample size). That was worst among the starters. He had the worst D-Rating of the starters at 122.1.

Leonard Miller also had the worst net rating among the starters in the 11 Showcase games he played in, at -7.3.

Yes, he does produce some nice counting stats in terms of points, rebounds, assists, etc. But his defense was so awful that it torpedoed whatever other good things he did on the court.

Minott is a similar story, but not quite as dramatically bad.

A classic Miller defensive play would be to jump out on screens (a hard show, if you will) and then do.....nothing. You guys know that when playing a high wall defense the big guy has to actually hustle back to his man or whoever the defense rotated off of to cover his guy (usually the low man). It's a solid defensive strategy when you have Centers that are fleet-of-foot. Miller couldn't be bothered to recover to his man or anyone else for that matter after the initial hedge.

Kek already outlined Minott's defensive deficiencies.

Yep. Millers plus/minus was horrifically bad and speaks volumes about how far off his is. When I put his disinterested defense together with his behavior clowning around with Moore on the Wolves bench in close playoff games, I start to see a Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams bust in in his future unless he turns things around soon. Miller is really talented, but so were Johnson and Williams.

I continue to believe that Minott’s defense will be fine. And I love that he was the only one among our young guys who completely ignored and declined to join the Wendell Moore sideline clown show.

I think Minott came into last year's summer league and training camp determined to win a spot in the rotation. When it was clear he wasn't ready, he probably became a bit disillusioned. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't moved this offseason. The drafting of Shannon, Jr. and signing of Ingles and Dozier has almost put the final nail in his coffin when it comes to having any sort of future with the Wolves. His last chance starts in a few days!

[Monster]

Miller had a Net Rating of -13.7 during the G-League Regular Season (of which Miller played in 20 of them, so decent sample size). That was worst among the starters. He had the worst D-Rating of the starters at 122.1.

Leonard Miller also had the worst net rating among the starters in the 11 Showcase games he played in, at -7.3.

Yes, he does produce some nice counting stats in terms of points, rebounds, assists, etc. But his defense was so awful that it torpedoed whatever other good things he did on the court.

Minott is a similar story, but not quite as dramatically bad.

A classic Miller defensive play would be to jump out on screens (a hard show, if you will) and then do.....nothing. You guys know that when playing a high wall defense the big guy has to actually hustle back to his man or whoever the defense rotated off of to cover his guy (usually the low man). It's a solid defensive strategy when you have Centers that are fleet-of-foot. Miller couldn't be bothered to recover to his man or anyone else for that matter after the initial hedge.

Kek already outlined Minott's defensive deficiencies.

Yep. Millers plus/minus was horrifically bad and speaks volumes about how far off his is. When I put his disinterested defense together with his behavior clowning around with Moore on the Wolves bench in close playoff games, I start to see a Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams bust in in his future unless he turns things around soon. Miller is really talented, but so were Johnson and Williams.

I continue to believe that Minott’s defense will be fine. And I love that he was the only one among our young guys who completely ignored and declined to join the Wendell Moore sideline clown show.

I think Minott came into last year's summer league and training camp determined to win a spot in the rotation. When it was clear he wasn't ready, he probably became a bit disillusioned. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't moved this offseason. The drafting of Shannon, Jr. and signing of Ingles and Dozier has almost put the final nail in his coffin when it comes to having any sort of future with the Wolves. His last chance starts in a few days!

Nobody here is valuing Minott too highly but my guess is there are some teams that would give up some sort of minor asset like a future 2nd to give Minott a shot. That was likely partly why they picked up that option. Jon K said that Langdon actually likes Moore so he was willing to give him a shot in Detroit while getting paid with a good asset to do so. Connelly has traded guys before to get something out of them and Minott could be that next guy...or it could even be Miller. I still think Minott has a bit of a shot as a true bouncy energetic PF type in a few minutes here or there. None of the guys you mention have that in their game especially the younger guys rebounding the ball. If Miller is that horrific on D he isn't gonna play any meaningful minutes unless things have gone horribly wrong and meaningful minutes may not be the case anyways.

[Lipoli390]

Yep. Millers plus/minus was horrifically bad and speaks volumes about how far off his is. When I put his disinterested defense together with his behavior clowning around with Moore on the Wolves bench in close playoff games, I start to see a Wes Johnson, Derrick Williams bust in in his future unless he turns things around soon. Miller is really talented, but so were Johnson and Williams.

I continue to believe that Minott’s defense will be fine. And I love that he was the only one among our young guys who completely ignored and declined to join the Wendell Moore sideline clown show.

I think Minott came into last year's summer league and training camp determined to win a spot in the rotation. When it was clear he wasn't ready, he probably became a bit disillusioned. I'm honestly surprised he wasn't moved this offseason. The drafting of Shannon, Jr. and signing of Ingles and Dozier has almost put the final nail in his coffin when it comes to having any sort of future with the Wolves. His last chance starts in a few days!

Nobody here is valuing Minott too highly but my guess is there are some teams that would give up some sort of minor asset like a future 2nd to give Minott a shot. That was likely partly why they picked up that option. Jon K said that Langdon actually likes Moore so he was willing to give him a shot in Detroit while getting paid with a good asset to do so. Connelly has traded guys before to get something out of them and Minott could be that next guy...or it could even be Miller. I still think Minott has a bit of a shot as a true bouncy energetic PF type in a few minutes here or there. None of the guys you mention have that in their game especially the younger guys rebounding the ball. If Miller is that horrific on D he isn't gonna play any meaningful minutes unless things have gone horribly wrong and meaningful minutes may not be the case anyways.

Overall, I agree with Monster on Minott and Miller.

I think Q is right about Minott being determined to win a spot in the rotation last year and then becoming disillusioned when he didn’t. I suspect they’ve kept him because they see enough of him in practice (things we don’t see) to view him as a potential rotational player, although I also suspect they have more confidence in TSJ at this point. Like Monster, I see Minott as a bouncy energetic PF. I liken him to Vando, but without quite the same rebounding chops although probably with better passing ability. I love that Minott is serious and super competitive. He’s a guy you keep around until you don’t see any path. Our front office and coaching staff must still see a path or they would have traded him this summer. He has two seasons left under his current contract. I would think that next summer is when we’ll know Minott’s fate with the Wolves. We have only one pick - Utah’s second rounder - next summer. Minott, Miller or Clark could be an asset for trading up a bit.

[Coolbreeze44]

Whew what a relief. I was worried we wouldn't have a two week thread on Minott and Miller this offseason.

[Carlos Danger]

Whew what a relief. I was worried we wouldn't have a two week thread on Minott and Miller this offseason.

In all fairness though - I appreciate guys still keeping this forum going during the slow times. I don't mind the discussion at all myself. But Summer League will hopefully give us more to discuss!

[Lipoli390]

Whew what a relief. I was worried we wouldn't have a two week thread on Minott and Miller this offseason.

Just waiting for something of substance to discuss. Maybe I’ll start another KAT v Rudy trade thread.

[Coolbreeze44]

Whew what a relief. I was worried we wouldn't have a two week thread on Minott and Miller this offseason.

Just waiting for something of substance to discuss. Maybe I’ll start another KAT v Rudy trade thread.

Summer league should provide some meaty topics for us. And like you, i still think we need to add a point guard in FA. There are some guys out there who could definitely fill the bill.

[kekgeek]

Whew what a relief. I was worried we wouldn't have a two week thread on Minott and Miller this offseason.

Just waiting for something of substance to discuss. Maybe I’ll start another KAT v Rudy trade thread.

Summer league should provide some meaty topics for us. And like you, i still think we need to add a point guard in FA. There are some guys out there who could definitely fill the bill.

Almost unrealistic but the longer Tyus is on the market the more I believe he is coming here on a min. Haha