Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:22 am
Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:22 am
Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 12:16 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

Again why are we talking about Ant playing PF? I'm sure there will be times that he is matched up against opposing 4s but likely not when they have a significant height advantage.

Jaden is also, almost certainly, heavier than his combine weight of 189. I continue to be so confused by this conversation.
It's not that it's much ado about nothing, but it's close. I also don't agree with Dane on his point, and it's a serious exaggeration in my opinion

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:22 am
Lyles ain't starting, and if he is I'd be very disappointed in Finch.
I agreed that he's becoming a forgotten player in the PF discussion, but that's still only as a rotation piece, he can't be a starter for an indefinite period of games--- that would be a problem.

Talking about Ant or Ayo playing PF is ridiculous, because that's not the question at hand. The question is, can they be good enough as wing stoppers if Jaden is your starting PF?

And once again we're left asking: who are these "behemoths" playing PF in the league today? Chet Holmgren is considered a DPOY level defender who is the starting 4 in OKCs lineup and then moves down to center when IHart leaves the floor.... How bulky is that guy?
You'll have to solve for guys like Zion, who you won't see in the playoffs and Giannis who plays in the East. That puzzle is never solved, by any team, by matching your 4s 1 on 1 with them...never

Whether this board or Finch like it or not Jaden is the starting PF unless other moves are made.

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 12:52 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 12:16 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

Again why are we talking about Ant playing PF? I'm sure there will be times that he is matched up against opposing 4s but likely not when they have a significant height advantage.

Jaden is also, almost certainly, heavier than his combine weight of 189. I continue to be so confused by this conversation.
It's not that it's much ado about nothing, but it's close. I also don't agree with Dane on his point, and it's a serious exaggeration in my opinion

I also very much disagree with Dane about the roster being unserious. I think having conversations about PF is fair because even if you feel good about Jaden and Lyles there isn't anything behind those guys other than Beringer who we are already leaning on as the true backup center and we actually don't know if he is ready for that but I think it's fair to find out. If they end up needing to find a backup center there is usually 3-5 unsigned guys that could play a few minutes as true centers.

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 1:20 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 7:50 am

FNG saying Edwards has short arms is hilarious because it's clearly not accurate. Meanwhile most of defense isn't standing straight up and down and are we not going to account for Edwards well above average athletic ability when contesting shots? Like someone said Edwards playing PF is something that is gonna happen situationally not every game. Thank goodness we didn't acquire Zion Williamson and his short armed 8'7" standing reach!

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

I'm with you FNG and I agree with Dane that we aren't a serious team if we don't acquire a starting caliber power forward. Our prime competitors have the option of going really big against us and that isn't going to be good. Due to our roster construction Jaden is still going to have to guard the best guard/wing every night. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case this year, but who else is going to do it? You might say Ayo, but I believe he is far more suited to coming off the bench. You can put TSJ at power forward but what kind of a solution is that for a contending team? I also expect TC to make a move, I hope it comes before the season starts but I could see it occurring during the season. Either way, it needs to happen. There are so many teams with a glut of power forwards that it shouldn't be too difficult to find the right guy.

Lipoli390 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 1:36 pm

Monster wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 12:52 pm

AussieWolf3 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 12:16 pm
Again why are we talking about Ant playing PF? I'm sure there will be times that he is matched up against opposing 4s but likely not when they have a significant height advantage.

Jaden is also, almost certainly, heavier than his combine weight of 189. I continue to be so confused by this conversation.
It's not that it's much ado about nothing, but it's close. I also don't agree with Dane on his point, and it's a serious exaggeration in my opinion

I also very much disagree with Dane about the roster being unserious. I think having conversations about PF is fair because even if you feel good about Jaden and Lyles there isn't anything behind those guys other than Beringer who we are already leaning on as the true backup center and we actually don't know if he is ready for that but I think it's fair to find out. If they end up needing to find a backup center there is usually 3-5 unsigned guys that could play a few minutes as true centers.

Add me to the list of those who view Dane’s take as ridiculous. Our lack of a player other than Lyles with PF weight AND length is certainly a weakness but it’s hyperbolic nonsense to suggest that it makes the Wolves roster unserious.

And let’s not forget that the Wolves WILL be adding another player to the roster sometime this offseason and it’s highly likely that player will have PF length and bulk. We will also have Rocco and Renn on two-way contracts. Beringer certainly has the athleticism and mobility to guard the PF position.

I continue to believe the Wolves should sign Jeremy Sochan if they can. He obviously has PF length and bulk. He’s a very good rebounder and defender who brings terrific effort, speed, mobility and ball skills to the court. At his young age you have to assume improvement in his game overall with the potential to develop a perimeter shot. At a minimum, he’s a guy a guy you can put on the court to match up with the true PFs, defend, and rebound while also bringing great energy and speed.

There are less dynamic options like Kleber and Olynyk as well.

Bottom line - this is not a crisis.

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 2:49 pm

Coolbreeze44 wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 1:20 pm

FNG wrote: ↑Tue Jul 28, 2026 10:28 am

Monster, I'm not sure what's inaccurate in my assessment...Ant's documented 8-4 standing reach clearly puts him at a disadvantage when having to defend PFs 8 inches longer than him (9 feet being close to the average PF length...some longer, some shorter). This one is personal to me. Even though it was decades ago, I still remember my first college game against the Coast Guard Academy. We mostly matched up with them size wise, except for me...I had to guard a guy who both outweighed me by 50 pounds (Hi Jaden), and had at least 8 inches of true length on me (Hi Ant et al). Let's just say it wasn't pretty and I'm still carrying the emotional scars...I had no chance against him! That's why I'm so adamant about not playing guys like Ant and Jaden away from their natural positions. Dane Moore has said we're not a "serious team" if we're thinking we can put Jaden or Ant/Ayo at PF and get away with it most nights, and I agree. That's why I'm convinced TC is still going to make a move. It may not be right away because I don't think we have assets that are attractive enough. But if the mix and match strategy doesn't work and Lyles doesn't at least partially solve the PF issue (and yes, five other teams have not considered him a starter), I wouldn't be surprised to see a mid-December trade when a bona fide attractive asset in Ayo becomes trade eligible. We'll have to see, but in TC I trust.

But monster brings up a good point when he mentions Zion, because Zion is also somewhat under-lengthed (to make up a word) as a PF at 8-7. I would have no problem at all with Ant guarding Zion when we play the Pels only giving up 3 inches in length. But even though I also remember him having some good possessions against JJJ in the past, I think it's folly to think he can guard a guy like that on most nights giving up 10 inches in length! Ant might be bulky enough to keep him away from the basket (unlike Jaden), but Jackson could take mid-rangers and floaters with impunity. I hope Finchy doesn't do that to either Ant or Jaden.

I'm with you FNG and I agree with Dane that we aren't a serious team if we don't acquire a starting caliber power forward. Our prime competitors have the option of going really big against us and that isn't going to be good. Due to our roster construction Jaden is still going to have to guard the best guard/wing every night. I was hoping that wasn't going to be the case this year, but who else is going to do it? You might say Ayo, but I believe he is far more suited to coming off the bench. You can put TSJ at power forward but what kind of a solution is that for a contending team? I also expect TC to make a move, I hope it comes before the season starts but I could see it occurring during the season. Either way, it needs to happen. There are so many teams with a glut of power forwards that it shouldn't be too difficult to find the right guy.

It's a good discussion, Cool, between those who think we are fine at PF without making a move and those that side with Dane that it's essential for us to add some legitimate size if we want to contend...time will tell which take is correct, I guess. Or it will become a moot discussion if TC is successful in bringing in a true PF.

One thing you and I have in common is we have both coached a lot (maybe several others here have too). And while schemes and teaching skills are important, I always thought my most important role in coaching either basketball or baseball was to put my players in the best possible role for them to succeed. Last year Finchy's biggest issue was finding a true PG, and when TC didn't help him with this, he had to shoehorn guys like Ant and Ayo into a role they are not cut out for. It wasn't a disaster, but I thought it was a disservice to both of them. That issue will be solved with a hopefully healthy Ball. But it's created a new issue for Finchy, and I think we're being naive if we don't think he brings it up every day to his boss. I imagine him saying "Tim, thank you for getting me Ball, but I'm going to be judged on our team's performance, and you're asking me to believe one (or more) of these three things:
1)A guy nicknamed Slim who has established a solid reputation as an elite wing defender isn't going to struggle defending guys 50 pounds heavier than him, or
2) All of our guys who are 7-4 or 7-5 long will be just fine guarding PFs who are six to ten inches longer, or
3) Our problem is solved because we now have Trey Lyles."

I guess anyone of these could prove to be true, but I would give number 3 the best chance...but even that is doubtful. TC has said there are "internal options" they are looking at, but he has to say that to keep selling tickets...it's that comment that Dane deems unserious. I'm a Wolves fan, so I'll be hoping one of the three things above proves true, just like I hoped Ant or Ayo would be a legitimate PG. But of course you can crap in one hand and wish in the other and see which hand gets filled first!

And that's why I'm still confident TC will make a big move...maybe not now, but certainly by the end of the year if the "Jaden et al at PF" experiment doesn't pan out.

Mnwild1128 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2026 8:47 pm We won't be starting a PF. Like Spurs, we will start 4 guards/wings.