Minnesota Sports Forum

I am certainly not against taking a PG. I look as Dunn as a defender off the bench for PG/SG/SF.

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

I would not trade Rubio if all the forwards are gone (Jackson, Tatum, Isaac).

I would be looking at trades to move back, #7 for #8, a 2nd, KOQ. #7 for #10 and WCS. #7 for #13 and chandler (rumors he wants out). #7 to Phil for a 2nd, Okafor and the 2018 Lakers pick.

I am not the biggest Rubio guy but we can't have a rookie running point next year. It dosen't help the development of any of our young guys when we go through rookie mistakes.

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

Future, I'd suggest to start looking at teams with a need for a starting level PG and then decide if you can sell high on Rubio. I don't think you will find much success when you consider this draft has a lot of PGs and many of the teams with needs at that position have high draft picks. There will be options in FA as well with a legit guy like Darren Collison.

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

I think the Kings at 10 is realistic depending on their first pick. If they take Isaac, Jackson or Tatum at 5, Ricky for 10 makes sense to be a veteran presence around their young team because likely the unknown French guard is the only one left on the board at 10.

monsterpile wrote:

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

Future, I'd suggest to start looking at teams with a need for a starting level PG and then decide if you can sell high on Rubio. I don't think you will find much success when you consider this draft has a lot of PGs and many of the teams with needs at that position have high draft picks. There will be options in FA as well with a legit guy like Darren Collison.

Well that's kind of what I was looking at with the Knicks, Mavs, Kings like Khans said below me, Detroit (if let's say it was a three way deal with Reggie going elsewhere and us getting #12) and Denver. I figure one of them would be interested, particularly the mavs, kings, and Denver.

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

I would not trade Rubio if all the forwards are gone (Jackson, Tatum, Isaac).

I would be looking at trades to move back, #7 for #8, a 2nd, KOQ. #7 for #10 and WCS. #7 for #13 and chandler (rumors he wants out). #7 to Phil for a 2nd, Okafor and the 2018 Lakers pick.

I am not the biggest Rubio guy but we can't have a rookie running point next year. It dosen't help the development of any of our young guys when we go through rookie mistakes.

I like those trades except for the Denver trade.

As for Ricky, I began to question if it is worse to lose or trade him (for less value) in two years where we then have to incorporate a young/new guard. Why not bite that bullet now? You can also make a case that Ricky's style impedes some of our young guys' development because Ricky is only a positive with the ball always in his hands.

TheFuture wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

I would not trade Rubio if all the forwards are gone (Jackson, Tatum, Isaac).

I would be looking at trades to move back, #7 for #8, a 2nd, KOQ. #7 for #10 and WCS. #7 for #13 and chandler (rumors he wants out). #7 to Phil for a 2nd, Okafor and the 2018 Lakers pick.

I am not the biggest Rubio guy but we can't have a rookie running point next year. It dosen't help the development of any of our young guys when we go through rookie mistakes.

I like those trades except for the Denver trade.

As for Ricky, I began to question if it is worse to lose or trade him (for less value) in two years where we then have to incorporate a young/new guard. Why not bite that bullet now? You can also make a case that Ricky's style impedes some of our young guys' development because Ricky is only a positive with the ball always in his hands.

But don't most of the "modern day" PGs need the ball in their hands most of the time? Dunn isn't exactly a floor spacer either....Neither is Dennis Smith by the way.

The unique thing about Ricky is that yes, he needs the ball in his hands to be the most effective, but he also enables KAT and Wig to do what they do best, which is score the basketball.

I do think small doses of "point Wiggins" or "point LaVine" makes sense in order to mix up the offense and continue their development, but neither are good enough to be primary half court ball handlers.

Q I'm more getting at the fact that Ricky just doesnt cut it spotting up, being a PnR threat, taking advantage of a big man on switches, etc (Fox, DSJ, and Dunn show ability to do some of that). I also believe the positives would outweigh the negatives for Dunn if he had the green light from the start of the year. I think most here are tired of having "the next year promise" for Ricky after seeing the same ol year after year.

So we spend another season allowing our offense to be "maestro Ricky", and maybe we do hit the playoffs. But as an opposing team I just get the ball out of Ricky's hands. What do the wolves do then? Play iso because that is all they will know to do.

I loved the Wiggins and Lavine development Thibs was going for. But he couldn't afford to lose value on Ricky nor finish worse than Sam did, so he reverted to the only way of making Ricky useful.

Now, if Ricky suddenly becomes a Nash or even a 30 + year old Kidd 3 pt threat then I'll gladly eat my crow. After 3+ years of off season "work", yet still seeing him throw line drives at the hoop - I'm not buying it.

TheFuture wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

TheFuture wrote:The more I think about it, the time to sell high and trade Ricky may be this offseason. Yes, it won't help make the playoffs next season, but I'd bet Ricky leaves in FA when we are actually becoming a threat.

I also assume Isaac is gone at 7 and we are looking at Fox, DSJ, or Monk (I am warming up to the idea of him as a 6th man who fits well subbing in early for LaVine and guarding the lesser of the guards next to Dunn) as the BPA.

So what is Rubio worth as a draft pick? Could we net a 8-14 pick for him? I know many people here do not want more young guys, but let's be real. We are at least 1 more star from even thinking of competing. I'd double up now while we have the opportunity to trade Rubio. DSJ or Fox + Collins, Markannen, OG, etc. would be great. Not to mention we free up 14 more million for this offseason or next.

I would not trade Rubio if all the forwards are gone (Jackson, Tatum, Isaac).

I would be looking at trades to move back, #7 for #8, a 2nd, KOQ. #7 for #10 and WCS. #7 for #13 and chandler (rumors he wants out). #7 to Phil for a 2nd, Okafor and the 2018 Lakers pick.

I am not the biggest Rubio guy but we can't have a rookie running point next year. It dosen't help the development of any of our young guys when we go through rookie mistakes.

I like those trades except for the Denver trade.

As for Ricky, I began to question if it is worse to lose or trade him (for less value) in two years where we then have to incorporate a young/new guard. Why not bite that bullet now? You can also make a case that Ricky's style impedes some of our young guys' development because Ricky is only a positive with the ball always in his hands.

Future --

I agree with you that, based on value, this summer may be the best time to deal Ricky. Of course, Ricky's value could go higher leading up to next February's trade deadline if the shooting he showed last last season continues or even improves next season. But I wouldn't count on that. I disagree that Ricky will likely leave at the end of his contract two years from now. If the team is doing well and competing in the playoffs by then, which I expect, Ricky will likely want to stay and be part of the upswing here after enduring all those prior years of losing.

Assuming we're both right about Ricky's trade value being at a high point, I think the decision comes down to two things -- (1) what we can get in return, and (2) who we can get to backfill at the PG position. I don't see any of the teams drafting ahead of us exchanging their picks straight up for Ricky. I think there are probably teams drafting in the 12-30 range who would deal their pick straight up for Ricky assuming they have cap room to absorb his salary. But I don't think we should trade Ricky unless we are certain we can sign a very solid veteran free agent PG to backfill behind him -- someone like George Hill, Jrue Holiday or Darren Collison. But two of those guys have serious issues -- Jrue Holiday's healthy and Darren Collison's defense. And there's not way to know that any of those three would sign with the Wolves. So we can't know by draft day whether we'd have a replacement for Ricky.

If you're willing to forego any realistic chance of a playoff appearance yet again in favor of the long view, then trading Ricky on draft day can make sense. I just can't stomach entering this season without a chance at making the playoffs.

TheFuture wrote:Q I'm more getting at the fact that Ricky just doesnt cut it spotting up, being a PnR threat, taking advantage of a big man on switches, etc (Fox, DSJ, and Dunn show ability to do some of that). I also believe the positives would outweigh the negatives for Dunn if he had the green light from the start of the year. I think most here are tired of having "the next year promise" for Ricky after seeing the same ol year after year.

So we spend another season allowing our offense to be "maestro Ricky", and maybe we do hit the playoffs. But as an opposing team I just get the ball out of Ricky's hands. What do the wolves do then? Play iso because that is all they will know to do.

I loved the Wiggins and Lavine development Thibs was going for. But he couldn't afford to lose value on Ricky nor finish worse than Sam did, so he reverted to the only way of making Ricky useful.

Now, if Ricky suddenly becomes a Nash or even a 30 + year old Kidd 3 pt threat then I'll gladly eat my crow. After 3+ years of off season "work", yet still seeing him throw line drives at the hoop - I'm not buying it.

I won't fault anyone for being skeptical about any further improvement to Ricky's shooting/scoring ability, as I myself am a skeptic. But I've always thought of him as a solid starting NBA PG despite this and a unique fit to our team in that our main scorers are on the wings along with the most offensively gifted big man in a generation. We were the #10 offense last season, despite having one of the lowest scoring benches in the league.

Not many other teams can fit Ricky in their offense the same way we can because they actually need their PG to carry a heavy scoring load. That makes him more valuable to us than what we can probably get back in the open market.