Minnesota Sports Forum

monsterpile wrote:Another team struggling with 3 point attempts. The quote below resonated with me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/triangle-knicks-offense-remains-bafflingly-inefficient-article-1.3726530

"We try to emphasize that, try to get it in the paint, try to kick it out to guys. I think sometimes we get in there and say, 'Okay, I got an 8-footer.' But teams that get a lot of 3s, they say, 'I don't want the 8-footer, I want to kick it out for a 3.' So we have to do a better job of that."

There is a lot to criticize Thibs the coach about, but I'm not sure 3-pointers is one of them. I think it's more personnel related than anything.

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Another team struggling with 3 point attempts. The quote below resonated with me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/triangle-knicks-offense-remains-bafflingly-inefficient-article-1.3726530

"We try to emphasize that, try to get it in the paint, try to kick it out to guys. I think sometimes we get in there and say, 'Okay, I got an 8-footer.' But teams that get a lot of 3s, they say, 'I don't want the 8-footer, I want to kick it out for a 3.' So we have to do a better job of that."

There is a lot to criticize Thibs the coach about, but I'm not sure 3-pointers is one of them. I think it's more personnel related than anything.

I disagree, Q. Lack of emphasis on shooting threes is one of my main criticisms of Thibs. His teams consistently rank at the bottom in terms of three-point attempts, and that can't be purely coincidental. Q, you say this is more personnel related than anything, but it's difficult for me to conclude that Thibs has never had the personnel to be even middle of the pack on attempts (to be fair, there was actually one season that a Thibs-coached Bulls team was not in the bottom three)...with the Wolves or the Bulls. The current Wolves team ranks 19th in 3-point percentage at a reasonable 35.7%. That tells me that our lack of made three pointers is solely due to volume, not accuracy. We have the shooters, we just don't emphasize the 3-pointer.

The teams that take a lot of threes feature a quick ball-movement offense that swings the ball around the perimeter until someone gets an open three. In contrast, Thibs seems to prefer a one-on-one isolation offense that is not conducive to the three-point game.

I've also noticed a hesitancy by several Wolves players to "let it fly" when they are open outside the line. Belly is the chief offender here, and having watched him in the Euro championships three years ago, I can tell you that was not his nature before he came to the Wolves. Tyus also maddeningly sometimes hesitates when he is wide open, and so does KAT. At times we see Wolves' players eschew the open three to move in 3 feet for a long 2. I think this is a reaction to Thibs' public comments that three-point attempts have to be "the right three". I see the hesitancy of certain Wolves' players to take the three as a reaction to this. When you are at games, you clearly see players looking over their shoulders at Thibs to see if he "approves" or to react to what he is yelling. You just don't see this type of behavior from other teams where there coach doesn't have then on such a tight leash.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the Wolves' offensive production. 108.6 PPG and 6th in the league is damn good. But this team is loaded with guys who can score the basketball, so this is an instance where I credit the skilled players more than the offensive scheme. Just think how much more potent this offense could be if they were only at the league average in three point attempts.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Another team struggling with 3 point attempts. The quote below resonated with me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/triangle-knicks-offense-remains-bafflingly-inefficient-article-1.3726530

"We try to emphasize that, try to get it in the paint, try to kick it out to guys. I think sometimes we get in there and say, 'Okay, I got an 8-footer.' But teams that get a lot of 3s, they say, 'I don't want the 8-footer, I want to kick it out for a 3.' So we have to do a better job of that."

There is a lot to criticize Thibs the coach about, but I'm not sure 3-pointers is one of them. I think it's more personnel related than anything.

I disagree, Q. Lack of emphasis on shooting threes is one of my main criticisms of Thibs. His teams consistently rank at the bottom in terms of three-point attempts, and that can't be purely coincidental. Q, you say this is more personnel related than anything, but it's difficult for me to conclude that Thibs has never had the personnel to be even middle of the pack on attempts (to be fair, there was actually one season that a Thibs-coached Bulls team was not in the bottom three)...with the Wolves or the Bulls. The current Wolves team ranks 19th in 3-point percentage at a reasonable 35.7%. That tells me that our lack of made three pointers is solely due to volume, not accuracy. We have the shooters, we just don't emphasize the 3-pointer.

The teams that take a lot of threes feature a quick ball-movement offense that swings the ball around the perimeter until someone gets an open three. In contrast, Thibs seems to prefer a one-on-one isolation offense that is not conducive to the three-point game.

I've also noticed a hesitancy by several Wolves players to "let it fly" when they are open outside the line. Belly is the chief offender here, and having watched him in the Euro championships three years ago, I can tell you that was not his nature before he came to the Wolves. Tyus also maddeningly sometimes hesitates when he is wide open, and so does KAT. At times we see Wolves' players eschew the open three to move in 3 feet for a long 2. I think this is a reaction to Thibs' public comments that three-point attempts have to be "the right three". I see the hesitancy of certain Wolves' players to take the three as a reaction to this. When you are at games, you clearly see players looking over their shoulders at Thibs to see if he "approves" or to react to what he is yelling. You just don't see this type of behavior from other teams where there coach doesn't have then on such a tight leash.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the Wolves' offensive production. 108.6 PPG and 6th in the league is damn good. But this team is loaded with guys who can score the basketball, so this is an instance where I credit the skilled players more than the offensive scheme. Just think how much more potent this offense could be if they were only at the league average in three point attempts.

I agree with LST on this. I've been to all but one of our home games this season and all but three last season. I can verify LST's observation about players constantly looking over their shoulders at Thibs to see if he approves or to react to what he's yelling. I see as we all do the hesitancy of player to take open threes early in the shot clock. And we all see the iso offensive Thibs runs and how that stifles 3-point shooting.

longstrangetrip wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:Another team struggling with 3 point attempts. The quote below resonated with me.

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/basketball/knicks/triangle-knicks-offense-remains-bafflingly-inefficient-article-1.3726530

"We try to emphasize that, try to get it in the paint, try to kick it out to guys. I think sometimes we get in there and say, 'Okay, I got an 8-footer.' But teams that get a lot of 3s, they say, 'I don't want the 8-footer, I want to kick it out for a 3.' So we have to do a better job of that."

There is a lot to criticize Thibs the coach about, but I'm not sure 3-pointers is one of them. I think it's more personnel related than anything.

I disagree, Q. Lack of emphasis on shooting threes is one of my main criticisms of Thibs. His teams consistently rank at the bottom in terms of three-point attempts, and that can't be purely coincidental. Q, you say this is more personnel related than anything, but it's difficult for me to conclude that Thibs has never had the personnel to be even middle of the pack on attempts (to be fair, there was actually one season that a Thibs-coached Bulls team was not in the bottom three)...with the Wolves or the Bulls. The current Wolves team ranks 19th in 3-point percentage at a reasonable 35.7%. That tells me that our lack of made three pointers is solely due to volume, not accuracy. We have the shooters, we just don't emphasize the 3-pointer.

The teams that take a lot of threes feature a quick ball-movement offense that swings the ball around the perimeter until someone gets an open three. In contrast, Thibs seems to prefer a one-on-one isolation offense that is not conducive to the three-point game.

I've also noticed a hesitancy by several Wolves players to "let it fly" when they are open outside the line. Belly is the chief offender here, and having watched him in the Euro championships three years ago, I can tell you that was not his nature before he came to the Wolves. Tyus also maddeningly sometimes hesitates when he is wide open, and so does KAT. At times we see Wolves' players eschew the open three to move in 3 feet for a long 2. I think this is a reaction to Thibs' public comments that three-point attempts have to be "the right three". I see the hesitancy of certain Wolves' players to take the three as a reaction to this. When you are at games, you clearly see players looking over their shoulders at Thibs to see if he "approves" or to react to what he is yelling. You just don't see this type of behavior from other teams where there coach doesn't have then on such a tight leash.

Overall, I'm very pleased with the Wolves' offensive production. 108.6 PPG and 6th in the league is damn good. But this team is loaded with guys who can score the basketball, so this is an instance where I credit the skilled players more than the offensive scheme. Just think how much more potent this offense could be if they were only at the league average in three point attempts.

I think you are finding things to just complain about Thibs, LST. Teague, Butler, wiggins, towns, taj, Gorgui are all in pace to shoot a career high in free throw attempts. Belly and Tyus are at there career average. Just Crawford is taking a dip.

The thing with this team besides Crawford nobody is good at taking a pull up 3. We have to create 3 opportunities and I feel like we do a good at that.

I rarely see us passing up a open 3 for a long 2. Wiggins is the only one who occasionally does this but he has taken out his shots at the rim not his 3 pt shot when he shoots.

I thought this was the one thread we didn't have to read walls of text about LST's hatred of Thibs?

Isn't this thread supposed to be "non-Wolves" NBA talk/updates... with an occasional tie-in to how if impacts/compares with the Wolves?


[Note: Sorry to complain... but this thread was a nice respite from the very Wolves-centric nature of the rest of the forum.]

AbeVigodaLive wrote:I thought this was the one thread we didn't have to read walls of text about LST's hatred of Thibs?

Isn't this thread supposed to be "non-Wolves" NBA talk/updates... with an occasional tie-in to how if impacts/compares with the Wolves?


[Note: Sorry to complain... but this thread was a nice respite from the very Wolves-centric nature of the rest of the forum.]

My bad Abe my post and link led back to this. I thought it was interesting and bring out some worthwhile discussion...I should have put it in another thread.

New Orleans and OKC lost last night. That helps!

Q12543 wrote:New Orleans and OKC lost last night. That helps!

...and Golden State!!!!! =)

Jon K went farther into some of the behind the scenes stuff with Kris Dunn and the Wolves last year on his latest Podcast with Jim Souhan. It's worth a listen as Jon usually holds back on sharing some of those type of stuff. It's on the back half of the podcast which isn't too long.

https://www.mnspn.com/jon-krawczynski-s-you-betcha-basket

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mnspn-com/id1014544923?mt=2#episodeGuid=tag%3Asoundcloud%2C2010%3Atracks%2F376562057

monsterpile wrote:Jon K went farther into some of the behind the scenes stuff with Kris Dunn and the Wolves last year on his latest Podcast with Jim Souhan. It's worth a listen as Jon usually holds back on sharing some of those type of stuff. It's on the back half of the podcast which isn't too long.

https://www.mnspn.com/jon-krawczynski-s-you-betcha-basket

https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/mnspn-com/id1014544923?mt=2#episodeGuid=tag%3Asoundcloud%2C2010%3Atracks%2F376562057

Good podcast, thanks for posting the link.

They brought up my guy Jared Dudley as a guy to watch as we approach the trade deadline! I'd love him on the squad.