Minnesota Sports Forum

Hicks123 wrote:

m4gor wrote:

Camden wrote:

m4gor wrote:guys can you tell me if there was top1 pick not playing March tournament before? (not counting high school and international kids obviously) ..

Not since 1980. No. 1 overall pick Joe Barry Carroll from Purdue. Thanks for asking that, m4gor.

Thanks for your research Cam. Yea i thought that number1 guys should be at least able to get their team into tournament no matter what basically, esp. Simmons who should be able to run whole NBA offense

m4gor,
See bold. You have made this statement a couple times about Simmons. You do realize he is a 6'10" PF, correct? While he has superb handles and dribbling capability for anyone over 6'6", he will NOT be asked to run an NBA offense. Not sure where this is coming from.

While on subject, Cam made a point about why he may have struggled a bit to get team into tourney. Simmons is a very well rounded offensive player. As stated, he has supreme handles and also showed to be a very willing and creative passer. Those skills, along with being a great rebounder, are probably his top assets at the moment. He is a good scorer as well, but he did not always show that killer scorer mentality. His team was poor, and he looked to facilitate often, with little to show. I don't hold that against him. He could have chosen to hog the ball and jack up unwarranted shots, but the games I saw, he continued to keep teammates involved. I haven't noticed a passive side to Simmons....he just might not be a #1 scoring option at the next level. With everything else he brings, I don't see any red flags here.

I don't think he has the same character flaws as Beasley, but I'm just not interested in a guy that is disinterested in playing defense and has no outside shot. I by no means think he will be a bust, but I like our chances of what we could get in return for him vs. what he brings to the table himself.

No one has ever mentioned Thomas Bryant

Center

6'-11" 241 lbs
Age 18
Birth Jul 31, 1997
Class Freshman
Reach 9'-4"
Wingspan 7'-6"

Pros
Versatile forward
Crazy long wingspan
Can score inside and outside
Has range all the way out to the 3-point line

Negatives
Still raw and inconsistent
Can fall in love with his perimeter shot at the expense of his post game

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Thomas-Bryant-7231/

I read an article a while ago that seemed to make me wonder about Simmons when it came to his mind and had the thought of Beasley also. The point that has been made though was Beasley never had a question about him completing at the college level. He took a Kansas State team to the tourney. Now in Simmons defense it may be a little harder to carry a team because even with 4 more teams getting in I think there is more talent across the country.

Think about that draft with Beasley it seemed loaded at the top and it was the Wolves who ended up coming out of that draft with a very god player for once and fleecing another team (but Memphis still ended up putting together a contender amazingly). Right now it seems like the best player by far from that draft is Westbrook who was picked 4 and was considered a gamble at that spot. Let's hope we can pick the right guy and get someone worthwhile. Looking at the lottery picks of that draft it shows the upside and downside of draft picks especially when you look at the injury history of some of the talented guys. Side note: Beasley had some nagging injury stuff that didn't help.

Also I'll just add all those articles about Wiggins being a bit odd and how he can be passive or whatnot...well have rung true to a certain extent. Now the good news is Wiggins seems like a good kid and I think despite him being sort of passive he seems like a guy that will perform when the lights get brother which is frustrating but not a bad thing. Also because we have towns and Lavine if he isn't THE MAN that's ok even though it would be great if he could stuff the box score more. The bottom line is that I think the negative aspect of Simmons has to be considered.

In my opinion, the difference in play styles allows Simmons to be a little passive at times and get away with it whereas Wiggins absolutely cannot be passive if he is going to be a star.

Simmons gets considered passive or lackadaisical at the college level when he's moving the rock, setting screens (sometimes lazily) and jogging back in transition. I don't condone the latter two, but he really is such a talented passer that I'm OK with him finding teammates albeit lesser talented teammates for decent looks instead of him forcing the issue. To me, that's not a bad thing as he moves on to the NBA where he's likely to be surrounded by better teammates, especially if he was on this Wolves team that has talent galore.

I've also said this before, but I think Simmons has conserved energy on defense because he knew the burden he had to carry on offense. We've seen that with a bunch of guys and yes, it's a potential concern, but I think he has a high motor regardless and that it'll show at the next level. It's like NASCAR drivers turning off their engines instead of idling after a caution flag. It saves fuel. I think that's all he did this year. It's unlike last year's situation with Okafor because Simmons is a fantastic athlete and he's already shown some instincts on that end (0.8 BPG, 2.0 SPG). Most importantly, I really do believe that Simmons is coachable, which is key in improving defensively.

Wiggins, on the other hand, is hurt by his passivity because his calling card in the NBA is as a scorer. He's not a rebounder. He can't consistently create for teammates because of his handle/vision/passing ability. He's not a fantastic defender (yet?). So, scoring the rock is his niche. He needs to be aggressive whenever the ball's in his hands or else he's not really impacting the game. Simmons differs from Wiggins in that he can impact other areas of the game. He potentially brings a more well-rounded game to the table. We're talking about the difference between a 20-25 PPG scorer annually and a triple double threat nightly.

To sum it up, in no way do I pass on the opportunity to add Simmons because of fit.

FWIW this is the article I was referring to.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/why-ben-simmons-isn-t-the-top-prospect-in-the-2016-nba-draft-190023711.html

I think coaching will be the key with Simmons, he will need someone who magnifies his strengths. He reminds me of Odom, who floundered a bit as well until Jackson was able to leverage his strengths. I would love Simmons to be the focal point of a second unit. I think he would be a really interesting mix with Bazz. Could make our second unit really dynamic and would fit into unique matchup situations with the starters. This would all be just in his first year. I do believe he has the talent to be a starter. But I think a great coach would be able to make Simmons an xfactor 6 man, like Odom and Ginobili.

thedoper wrote:I think coaching will be the key with Simmons, he will need someone who magnifies his strengths. He reminds me of Odom, who floundered a bit as well until Jackson was able to leverage his strengths. I would love Simmons to be the focal point of a second unit. I think he would be a really interesting mix with Bazz. Could make our second unit really dynamic and would fit into unique matchup situations with the starters. This would all be just in his first year. I do believe he has the talent to be a starter. But I think a great coach would be able to make Simmons an xfactor 6 man, like Odom and Ginobili.

A great coach would play him with his best players to fully utilize his best skills: passing, rebounding and transition offense. You can bring him off the bench in year one so that he can adapt to the NBA level if you'd like, but after that you need to start him and let his natural talent flourish. He has star potential. You shouldn't limit those guys to 6th man duties.

Camden0916 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think coaching will be the key with Simmons, he will need someone who magnifies his strengths. He reminds me of Odom, who floundered a bit as well until Jackson was able to leverage his strengths. I would love Simmons to be the focal point of a second unit. I think he would be a really interesting mix with Bazz. Could make our second unit really dynamic and would fit into unique matchup situations with the starters. This would all be just in his first year. I do believe he has the talent to be a starter. But I think a great coach would be able to make Simmons an xfactor 6 man, like Odom and Ginobili.

A great coach would play him with his best players to fully utilize his best skills: passing, rebounding and transition offense. You can bring him off the bench in year one so that he can adapt to the NBA level if you'd like, but after that you need to start him and let his natural talent flourish. He has star potential. You shouldn't limit those guys to 6th man duties.

Odom is an interesting comp and other than staying healthy I don't really think there was all that much wrong with his game it was more that he wasn't The type of player that could be THE GUY and he played a lot of small forward early on.

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think coaching will be the key with Simmons, he will need someone who magnifies his strengths. He reminds me of Odom, who floundered a bit as well until Jackson was able to leverage his strengths. I would love Simmons to be the focal point of a second unit. I think he would be a really interesting mix with Bazz. Could make our second unit really dynamic and would fit into unique matchup situations with the starters. This would all be just in his first year. I do believe he has the talent to be a starter. But I think a great coach would be able to make Simmons an xfactor 6 man, like Odom and Ginobili.

A great coach would play him with his best players to fully utilize his best skills: passing, rebounding and transition offense. You can bring him off the bench in year one so that he can adapt to the NBA level if you'd like, but after that you need to start him and let his natural talent flourish. He has star potential. You shouldn't limit those guys to 6th man duties.

Odom and Ginobili are/were both stars on championship teams. Although Odom wasn't considered a perennial all star, his playoff performance on those LA teams was amazing and he was a huge factor in those championships. If Simmons could end up contributing to either of their potential I would be impressed. I don't think you "need" to start any player. This is my point about a great coach. Pop saw this with Manu, Phil saw it with Odom, they were able to know that the matchup were so great in staggering their minutes because who on the second unit could match that. I'm not sold that Simmons is going to dominate the floor, but I do recognize that he has a unique skillset that could make him a star. In the same breath I could see him flounder under bad coaching.