Around the League 2022-23

[AbeVigodaLive]

Fultz got a bad rap because (1) he was drafted #1 (2) he had a highly publicized injury/shooting regression (3) he only played in 33 games for two seasons and (4) he didn't shoot three pointers in an era when the shot was booming.

But he actually played decent (and comparative to now) his first season in Orlando (2020)... especially with how efficiency is up across the league since 3 years ago.

Again, the rub became injuries... as Fultz only played 21 games over the next two seasons.

________

So it might be less about patience and development... and more about staying on the court. He was a #1 pick who barely played in 4 of his 6 seasons because of injuries as he's only averaged 30 games over his first 6 seasons.

[Lipoli390]

Fultz had 28 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 steals last night in a win over

Fultz got a bad rap because (1) he was drafted #1 (2) he had a highly publicized injury/shooting regression (3) he only played in 33 games for two seasons and (4) he didn't shoot three pointers in an era when the shot was booming.

But he actually played decent (and comparative to now) his first season in Orlando (2020)... especially with how efficiency is up across the league since 3 years ago.

Again, the rub became injuries... as Fultz only played 21 games over the next two seasons.

________

So it might be less about patience and development... and more about staying on the court. He was a #1 pick who barely played in 4 of his 6 seasons because of injuries as he's only averaged 30 games over his first 6 seasons.

It's still a matter of patience - whether it's patience with slow development or injuries.

The Sixers lost patience with Fultz and replaced him in the starting lineup with Jimmy Butler and later traded him at a discount compared to his draft position. There was a lot of discussion back then about whether Fultz's struggles were physical or psychological. In any event, then traded him at a discount. In contrast, the Magic have shown a lot of patience with Fultz as he's battled through injuries and it's starting to pay off for them. They are also showing tremendous patience with Jonathan Isaac and good patience with Suggs. Ultimately, I don't think it's going to work out for Isaac, but I like that the Magic are willing to stay with him on the chance his body stops breaking down, allowing them to benefit from his tremendous talent. The Magic have also shown some excellent judgment trading for Carter Jr while also drafting Banchero and Wagner.

In fairness to the Sixers, they were a top championship contended when Fultz was there. But what happened in Philly with Butler and Fultz is a lesson in patience and building in a way that's sustainable even for top contenders. The lesson is, of course, much more compelling for organizations like the Wolves that have never been close to championship contenders other than the Wolves championship run in the 2003-04 season. Flip's decision (with McHale's blessing) to let Billups go in favor of the much older and injury-prone Terrell Brandon was a lesson in impatience. It turned out to be terrible turning point for the franchise. Credit McHale for signing Billups when two other teams had given up on him. Getting him was a chance to fill the void left by Marbury's weird departure. Unfortunately, the Wolves front office opted for immediate gratification over sustainable growth and success. It's been the same old story with successive Wolves front offices since then.

[Monster]

Fultz had 28 points, 6 rebounds, 4 assists and 4 steals last night in a win over

Fultz got a bad rap because (1) he was drafted #1 (2) he had a highly publicized injury/shooting regression (3) he only played in 33 games for two seasons and (4) he didn't shoot three pointers in an era when the shot was booming.

But he actually played decent (and comparative to now) his first season in Orlando (2020)... especially with how efficiency is up across the league since 3 years ago.

Again, the rub became injuries... as Fultz only played 21 games over the next two seasons.

________

So it might be less about patience and development... and more about staying on the court. He was a #1 pick who barely played in 4 of his 6 seasons because of injuries as he's only averaged 30 games over his first 6 seasons.

It's still a matter of patience - whether it's patience with slow development or injuries.

The Sixers lost patience with Fultz and replaced him in the starting lineup with Jimmy Butler and later traded him at a discount compared to his draft position. There was a lot of discussion back then about whether Fultz's struggles were physical or psychological. In any event, then traded him at a discount. In contrast, the Magic have shown a lot of patience with Fultz as he's battled through injuries and it's starting to pay off for them. They are also showing tremendous patience with Jonathan Isaac and good patience with Suggs. Ultimately, I don't think it's going to work out for Isaac, but I like that the Magic are willing to stay with him on the chance his body stops breaking down, allowing them to benefit from his tremendous talent. The Magic have also shown some excellent judgment trading for Carter Jr while also drafting Banchero and Wagner.

In fairness to the Sixers, they were a top championship contended when Fultz was there. But what happened in Philly with Butler and Fultz is a lesson in patience and building in a way that's sustainable even for top contenders. The lesson is, of course, much more compelling for organizations like the Wolves that have never been close to championship contenders other than the Wolves championship run in the 2003-04 season. Flip's decision (with McHale's blessing) to let Billups go in favor of the much older and injury-prone Terrell Brandon was a lesson in impatience. It turned out to be terrible turning point for the franchise. Credit McHale for signing Billups when two other teams had given up on him. Getting him was a chance to fill the void left by Marbury's weird departure. Unfortunately, the Wolves front office opted for immediate gratification over sustainable growth and success. It's been the same old story with successive Wolves front offices since then.

I'm cheering for Fultz to succeed and he is having success this year (and the Magic when somewhat healthy don't suck) but still he is performing statistically like a low end starter. Are the Sixers sad they traded away a guy that cost a lot of money and for the most part wouldn't play games for them the next few seasons? Absolutely not.

Meanwhile guess what the Sixers did with the 1st round pick they got for Fultz? They drafted Tyrese Maxey who I would 100% rather have than Fultz and he is making a fraction of the price that Fultz is making. Other players Orlando could have taken with the draft pick if they had kept it that would be more valuable are McDaniels and Bane. They could have also messed up that pick and taken someone else and Fultz was a decent gamble. However Fultz is a guy I worry won't stay healthy and the guy still has a significant flaw in his game in that he doesn't take or make 3's. If that doesn't change he is going to have to be in just the right situation and be pretty good otherwise to not end up being a top back up in the league as opposed to being a starter. He does shoot FTs well so that helps and give hope on the 3 point shooting. This doesn't mean he isn't or won't be a valuable NBA player but he needs to show more to be an example of regret for being moved.

Also in the Fultz trade the Sixers received Cleveland's 2nd round pick in 2019 33rd overall. They packaged that pick to move up to select Matisse Thybulle who was a worthwhile player for them for a few years on a cheap salary. This year they traded him and a 2023 second round pick for Jalen McDaniels and 2 future 2nds 2024 second-round pick (from Charlotte)
2029 second-round pick (from Portland) which both have some chance to be valuable down the road.

It seems to me that the Sixers did pretty well moving on from Fultz to me.

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

[Monster]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

Lip can you explain what you mean when you said Fultz's numbers are "really good?"

[AbeVigodaLive]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

Lip can you explain what you mean when you said Fultz's numbers are "really good?"

And whether it's patience or insanity if it takes nearly 6 seasons and $53M to reach those numbers...

Personally, the story with a guy like Fultz seems to be "why be uber patient and pay for young players who are struggling when you can prey on other teams with guys like that and hope a change of scenery is what's needed."

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

Lip can you explain what you mean when you said Fultz's numbers are "really good?"

14 points. 5.6 assists, 4.1 rebounds and 1.5 steals while shooting over 50% from the field are really good numbers in my book.

[Monster]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

Lip can you explain what you mean when you said Fultz's numbers are "really good?"

14 points. 5.6 assists, 4.1 rebounds and 1.5 steals while shooting over 50% from the field are really good numbers in my book.

I'll keep this in mind going forward. I think your bar is pretty low.

[Lipoli390]

Good news and bad news. The good news is that the Grizzlies beat the Mavs who were playing without Doncic. The bad news is that the Warriors beat the Rockets but that was to be expected. More bad news on the way if the Jazz hold onto their 6-point third-quarter lead over the Kings. But still a long way to go in that game.

[Lipoli390]

Monster - Yep, the Sixers landed on their feet drafting Maxey with the pick they received in return after making a dumb swap with the Celtics and then giving up on Fultz. Good front office executives can come back from mistakes. Maxey was a smart pick and credit the Sixers organization for giving Maxey ample opportunity to showcase his talent and develop. I wasn't dissing the Sixers; I was just illustrating the importance of patience when dealing with young NBA talent, Fultz is putting up really good numbers this year and I think we're just seeing the tip of the iceberg with him. He's a tremendous talent

Lip can you explain what you mean when you said Fultz's numbers are "really good?"

14 points. 5.6 assists, 4.1 rebounds and 1.5 steals while shooting over 50% from the field are really good numbers in my book.

I'll keep this in mind going forward. I think your bar is pretty low.

If I said good without the adverb would that be more reasonable? :). I'm always impressed by a PG who shoots over 50% from the field. I also like seeing 4+ rebounds from a PG. Those are the stats that jumped out at me.