Minnesota Sports Forum

Well thanks for digging up these old posts and we now know Cam endorsed the possible Ryan Sanders hire at one point. :) Just giving you a hard time Cam.

For me it's a new group of basketball folks running this franchise and some of the things they are doing looks like it's actually working. Wiggins looks like a more than worthwhile basketball player. They added some free agents and players that seem to be able to help you win basketball games. Yes that's a novel idea around here. I'm enjoying the present and looking forward to the future and part of that future is enjoying watching Luka play basketball even if it's not for my favorite team.

I'm not sure we could have landed Doncic. But we could have gotten better value for Butler with a draft-day trade before the world knew he wanted out. Doncic ended up getting drafted 3rd and then traded to Dallas for the #5 pick (Trae Young). I think our best shot was swapping Butler to Memphis for the 4th pick. At the time, Memphis was a veteran team looking to compete. Note that the Wolves swapped the 7th pick + the previous year's 5th pick + Zach LaVine for Butler and the 16th pick. So it's not a stretch to believe that the Wolves could have swapped Butler and the 20th pick for a top 5 pick in 2018.

Alas, that's history. I'm with Monster in liking what we've seen so far from the Wolves organization under Rosas. The organization seems smart, focused and in tune with the modern NBA. So I'm just looking forward at this point. We're better so far this season than I thought we'd be and Rosas has a sensible cohesive strategy to build around KAT with talented players of similar vintage and high character. I'm on board with that strategy. We need to be patient.

monsterpile wrote:Well thanks for digging up these old posts and we now know Cam endorsed the possible Ryan Sanders hire at one point. :) Just giving you a hard time Cam.

For me it's a new group of basketball folks running this franchise and some of the things they are doing looks like it's actually working. Wiggins looks like a more than worthwhile basketball player. They added some free agents and players that seem to be able to help you win basketball games. Yes that's a novel idea around here. I'm enjoying the present and looking forward to the future and part of that future is enjoying watching Luka play basketball even if it's not for my favorite team.

What might have been. The Thibs years are just mental torture rehashing the mismanagement of the most talented young roster (according to Thibs himself). Not to mention others who mostly agreed KAT was the first player to draft to start a team "at the time".

I guess just enjoy where we are now and hope to see some breakthroughs from a player or 2 in order to give us optimism on future contending. Maybe Wiggins can continue to play hard and continue some of his better play. Hopefully start shooting the 3 better, though all the players outside of KAT needs to improve their shooting. KAT probably cannot shoot much better then he has.

lipoli390 wrote:I'm not sure we could have landed Doncic. But we could have gotten better value for Butler with a draft-day trade before the world knew he wanted out. Doncic ended up getting drafted 3rd and then traded to Dallas for the #5 pick (Trae Young). I think our best shot was swapping Butler to Memphis for the 4th pick. At the time, Memphis was a veteran team looking to compete. Note that the Wolves swapped the 7th pick + the previous year's 5th pick + Zach LaVine for Butler and the 16th pick. So it's not a stretch to believe that the Wolves could have swapped Butler and the 20th pick for a top 5 pick in 2018.

Alas, that's history. I'm with Monster in liking what we've seen so far from the Wolves organization under Rosas. The organization seems smart, focused and in tune with the modern NBA. So I'm just looking forward at this point. We're better so far this season than I thought we'd be and Rosas has a sensible cohesive strategy to build around KAT with talented players of similar vintage and high character. I'm on board with that strategy. We need to be patient.

You could have also moved up again from 4 (if needed) to 2 or 1 with another trade (future 1st like the Mavs did), if that player you want won't fall.

I just saw the Thibs years as a total failure, while others were just happy to make the playoffs. I guess I want to see a championship contender, not just sneak into the playoffs from Thibs quoted most talented young roster in the NBA.

You can always make excuses for failing, not directed at you Lip, just for others who accept perpetual mediocrity.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.

I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.

There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.

Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.

Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.

Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.

Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.

You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).

Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.

You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.

None of them drafted Doncic and none of them attract big name FA's. You can rebuild through trades as well, not just the draft. Wouldn't all three of those teams really be better off then where they are? Yes they could be. They could resign Butler, and potentially add pieces around him.

Just saying, well no, it was impossible. No team would want Butler. But wait, The Heat did. They were not a great team. It's not often the lower teams could trade for an All Star player, this was an instance. It was certainly possible. If that didn't work you immediately move onto plan B and trade Butler for the next best option.

Thibs did neither. He held onto Butler, watched the team implode and become a laughing stock in the news cycle everyday.

So do you think Thibs handled the Butler situation well? lol

Was it handled perfectly hell no, but if you want to blame a person blame Taylor, he gave Thibs the duel role. What is Thibs supposed to do, he is on the boarderline of getting fired, the only way to keep his job is to win games. So in what world does it make sense for Thibs to trade away his best player for any unproven rookie. Once again trading Butler made sense for the organization but it made 0 sense for Thibs because he is pretty much firing himself trading Butler.

It was on Taylor to either fire Thibs or let Thibs do his job and try and win basketball games.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I'm not sure we could have landed Doncic. But we could have gotten better value for Butler with a draft-day trade before the world knew he wanted out. Doncic ended up getting drafted 3rd and then traded to Dallas for the #5 pick (Trae Young). I think our best shot was swapping Butler to Memphis for the 4th pick. At the time, Memphis was a veteran team looking to compete. Note that the Wolves swapped the 7th pick + the previous year's 5th pick + Zach LaVine for Butler and the 16th pick. So it's not a stretch to believe that the Wolves could have swapped Butler and the 20th pick for a top 5 pick in 2018.

Alas, that's history. I'm with Monster in liking what we've seen so far from the Wolves organization under Rosas. The organization seems smart, focused and in tune with the modern NBA. So I'm just looking forward at this point. We're better so far this season than I thought we'd be and Rosas has a sensible cohesive strategy to build around KAT with talented players of similar vintage and high character. I'm on board with that strategy. We need to be patient.

You could have also moved up again from 4 (if needed) to 2 or 1 with another trade (future 1st like the Mavs did), if that player you want won't fall.

I just saw the Thibs years as a total failure, while others were just happy to make the playoffs. I guess I want to see a championship contender, not just sneak into the playoffs from Thibs quoted most talented young roster in the NBA.

You can always make excuses for failing, not directed at you Lip, just for others who accept perpetual mediocrity.

Nobody is just happy with 1 playoff appearance but I love that Thibs went for it. He acquired a top 15 player in the NBA for unporven talent and still to this day very underwhelming talent. I mean Lauri and Lavine are looking at year 3 with 50+ losses as their best 2 players and Lavine has never not lost 50 games. Thibs also acquired another draft pick in the Butler trade. Yes it didn't work but he gave us a chance to become a contender. If Butler would have resigned with Wolves the Wolves would at least be in the discussion as possible championship contender.

Thibs failed with drafting. Selecting Dunn over Murray and Hield, selecting Patton over Collins or OG (still feel like thibs got unlucky here with Patton injury but it still might have failed). But every person in wolves history has failed at drafting.

I mean everyone loves Flip but he traded a pick that could have been Mccoullum. Then in those 2 picks picked Bazz over Greak Freak, selected Dieng over Gobert, Glenn Taylor sold a draft pick that became a solid defender in Andre Roberson. Flip decided that Wiggins was greater than Embiid.

This is why the wolves are the worst organization in arguably sports history. Thibs made mistakes and he was an ass but I will always appreciate that he went for it even though in the end it did not work.

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I'm not sure we could have landed Doncic. But we could have gotten better value for Butler with a draft-day trade before the world knew he wanted out. Doncic ended up getting drafted 3rd and then traded to Dallas for the #5 pick (Trae Young). I think our best shot was swapping Butler to Memphis for the 4th pick. At the time, Memphis was a veteran team looking to compete. Note that the Wolves swapped the 7th pick + the previous year's 5th pick + Zach LaVine for Butler and the 16th pick. So it's not a stretch to believe that the Wolves could have swapped Butler and the 20th pick for a top 5 pick in 2018.

Alas, that's history. I'm with Monster in liking what we've seen so far from the Wolves organization under Rosas. The organization seems smart, focused and in tune with the modern NBA. So I'm just looking forward at this point. We're better so far this season than I thought we'd be and Rosas has a sensible cohesive strategy to build around KAT with talented players of similar vintage and high character. I'm on board with that strategy. We need to be patient.

You could have also moved up again from 4 (if needed) to 2 or 1 with another trade (future 1st like the Mavs did), if that player you want won't fall.

I just saw the Thibs years as a total failure, while others were just happy to make the playoffs. I guess I want to see a championship contender, not just sneak into the playoffs from Thibs quoted most talented young roster in the NBA.

You can always make excuses for failing, not directed at you Lip, just for others who accept perpetual mediocrity.

Nobody is just happy with 1 playoff appearance but I love that Thibs went for it. He acquired a top 15 player in the NBA for unporven talent and still to this day very underwhelming talent. I mean Lauri and Lavine are looking at year 3 with 50+ losses as their best 2 players and Lavine has never not lost 50 games. Thibs also acquired another draft pick in the Butler trade. Yes it didn't work but he gave us a chance to become a contender. If Butler would have resigned with Wolves the Wolves would at least be in the discussion as possible championship contender.

Thibs failed with drafting. Selecting Dunn over Murray and Hield, selecting Patton over Collins or OG (still feel like thibs got unlucky here with Patton injury but it still might have failed). But every person in wolves history has failed at drafting.

I mean everyone loves Flip but he traded a pick that could have been Mccoullum. Then in those 2 picks picked Bazz over Greak Freak, selected Dieng over Gobert, Glenn Taylor sold a draft pick that became a solid defender in Andre Roberson. Flip decided that Wiggins was greater than Embiid.

This is why the wolves are the worst organization in arguably sports history. Thibs made mistakes and he was an ass but I will always appreciate that he went for it even though in the end it did not work.

Yeah. Obviously, there were many things wrong with Thibodeau.

But trying to break the cycle of tanking + hoping draft picks pan out had to be broken. Ideally, it would have been for more than one year.

A lot of Wolves fans needed a change of pace... a reprieve from the seemingly never-ending seasons of abject failure. Butler didn't pan out after a year. Thibs was an ogre. It is what it is.

It's not like he set the franchise back for a decade. It's not like they pulled a terrible Brooklyn Nets type move. They still have Towns. They'll recover.

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.

I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.

There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.

Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.

Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.

Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.

Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.

You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).

Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.

You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.

None of them drafted Doncic and none of them attract big name FA's. You can rebuild through trades as well, not just the draft. Wouldn't all three of those teams really be better off then where they are? Yes they could be. They could resign Butler, and potentially add pieces around him.

Just saying, well no, it was impossible. No team would want Butler. But wait, The Heat did. They were not a great team. It's not often the lower teams could trade for an All Star player, this was an instance. It was certainly possible. If that didn't work you immediately move onto plan B and trade Butler for the next best option.

Thibs did neither. He held onto Butler, watched the team implode and become a laughing stock in the news cycle everyday.

So do you think Thibs handled the Butler situation well? lol

Was it handled perfectly hell no, but if you want to blame a person blame Taylor, he gave Thibs the duel role. What is Thibs supposed to do, he is on the boarderline of getting fired, the only way to keep his job is to win games. So in what world does it make sense for Thibs to trade away his best player for any unproven rookie. Once again trading Butler made sense for the organization but it made 0 sense for Thibs because he is pretty much firing himself trading Butler.

It was on Taylor to either fire Thibs or let Thibs do his job and try and win basketball games.

Since Thibs was closest to the team he would have known that the in fighting between Towns and Butler was more severe then we could have even known at the time. He had to know obviously that Butler was not resigning longterm here with KAT and Wiggins on the books. Mathematically it was never going to work. Their personalities clashed. I'm sure more then a few things happened in practice, behind closed doors.

Taylor isn't the GSW owner who will spend tens or hundreds of millions to win. I don't blame him for that. If Thibs did manage to trade Butler earlier for Doncic (traded up, traded up again, whatever) and Doncic showed promise his rookie year, he actually would still be here. So in a way, we are lucky and not lucky.

Of course I have ripped Glen for being a terrible owner for most of his time here. He's made poor moves over and over. Thibs was one of many. I blamed him for not firing Thibs earlier then he did. Most disagree but I thought Thibs should have been fired after making the playoffs. I don't care about previous regime history. I only care if the team is currently on a path to winning or not. Winning as in having a plan to compete for a championship. Holding onto Butler for one more rental year wasn't going to bring a championship, so under those simple rules, I would have went another way with Thibs. The trajectory of what Thibs was doing wasn't working well enough.

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.

I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.

There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.

Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.

Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.

Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.

Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.

You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).

Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.

You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.

None of them drafted Doncic and none of them attract big name FA's. You can rebuild through trades as well, not just the draft. Wouldn't all three of those teams really be better off then where they are? Yes they could be. They could resign Butler, and potentially add pieces around him.

Just saying, well no, it was impossible. No team would want Butler. But wait, The Heat did. They were not a great team. It's not often the lower teams could trade for an All Star player, this was an instance. It was certainly possible. If that didn't work you immediately move onto plan B and trade Butler for the next best option.

Thibs did neither. He held onto Butler, watched the team implode and become a laughing stock in the news cycle everyday.

So do you think Thibs handled the Butler situation well? lol

Was it handled perfectly hell no, but if you want to blame a person blame Taylor, he gave Thibs the duel role. What is Thibs supposed to do, he is on the boarderline of getting fired, the only way to keep his job is to win games. So in what world does it make sense for Thibs to trade away his best player for any unproven rookie. Once again trading Butler made sense for the organization but it made 0 sense for Thibs because he is pretty much firing himself trading Butler.

It was on Taylor to either fire Thibs or let Thibs do his job and try and win basketball games.

Since Thibs was closest to the team he would have known that the in fighting between Towns and Butler was more severe then we could have even known at the time. He had to know obviously that Butler was not resigning longterm here with KAT and Wiggins on the books. Mathematically it was never going to work. Their personalities clashed. I'm sure more then a few things happened in practice, behind closed doors.

Taylor isn't the GSW owner who will spend tens or hundreds of millions to win. I don't blame him for that. If Thibs did manage to trade Butler earlier for Doncic (traded up, traded up again, whatever) and Doncic showed promise his rookie year, he actually would still be here. So in a way, we are lucky and not lucky.

Of course I have ripped Glen for being a terrible owner for most of his time here. He's made poor moves over and over. Thibs was one of many. I blamed him for not firing Thibs earlier then he did. Most disagree but I thought Thibs should have been fired after making the playoffs. I don't care about previous regime history. I only care if the team is currently on a path to winning or not. Winning as in having a plan to compete for a championship. Holding onto Butler for one more rental year wasn't going to bring a championship, so under those simple rules, I would have went another way with Thibs. The trajectory of what Thibs was doing wasn't working well enough.

You are ripping Thibs for not making a hypothetical trade that was never going to happen.

Holy shit Kevin Mchale was a fucking idiot for not trading Sprewell and the 26th pick for Lebron James, Dwade, Melo or Bosh. But holy shit he was a genius for not trading them for Darko.

Yes the 1% chance Doncic became what he became would have worked but what happens if he would of been the next Darko. We would have traded our only asset in Butler, and multiple 1st round picks and then we are fucked going forward. I know you loved Doncic (good on you) but there is so much hindsight bias here.

It made 0 sense for Thibs to fire himself and trade his best asset and multiple future assets for a rookie who was not even close to a sure thing.

Once again you are making up a hypothetic in your head that had less than a 1% chance of happening and you are ripping Thibs for it. Im pissed that Rosas didn't trade Wiggins and multiple 1st for Zion. Dammit what an idiot, Im going to start ripping Rosas for the rest of the year because we don't have the Zion and Towns combo.

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

kekgeek1 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

Camden wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:I didn't see you picking a side there, but hey cover all your bases and you can be half right all the time. Nice fence riding. Unlike you I knew the team wasn't on it's way to contention, I wanted Thibs fired after making the playoffs. Traded Butler with the prime target of landing Doncic because like I said he is LeBron like minus the elite athleticism, basically you do whatever possible short of giving up KAT for him.

I only really remember Lip, Cool and I being on the fire Thibs train early on, while I believe we all would have targeted Doncic as the likely best option in the draft as well. Most were flat out against it, not Doncic per say, firing Thibs and trading Butler at the same time.

There was no need to "pick a side" within my response because there is no one correct way to build a roster. And whether you like it or not, Tom Thibodeau is legitimately the main reason why this franchise doesn't have the longest active playoff drought record at this very moment. Firing him after making the playoffs was never on the table -- and neither was the Jimmy Butler for Luka Doncic trade you keep patting yourself on the back for. Kudos on thinking Doncic would be a great player. You're one of many to share that opinion.

Can we be done with this? Or is there a comment from 2012 you can dig up where you advocated trading Derrick Williams for James Harden, or something similar? Maybe you came up with the idea of trading Nikola Pekovic for Anthony Davis? This is all compelling stuff here.

Actually there was a concise and clear route. Step one fire Thibs. Step two hire competent management and coaching. Step three trade Butler for the Doncic pick (obviously includes swapping picks and/or other potential fillers like I stated). The idea of Butler for Doncic was a baseline, if Atlanta, Phoenix or Sacramento were not up for a straight swap then you negotiate from there. Acting like it was only one option is really silly as this was simply an idea which was most likely never pursued. Especially since the ogre in charge was in love with Butler.

Remember that all 3 teams didn't want Doncic with their picks, so it was legitimate to make it happen. If not get the best deal for pick/s other young talent at the time. Reloading before the draft a full year earlier.

Once again no team in the top 3 was trading there pick for butler straight up because they were all rebuilding.

You keep saying you would of added multiple picks plus butler to get doncic. You are criticizing thibs for not doing what no person in NBA history has done and trade an All NBA player plus multiple 1sts to move up in the draft to take an unknown player that wasn't even the consensus #1 overall prospect (I mean he went 3rd overall).

Just because Doncic became an absolute stud (congrats on nailing that) dosen't mean it was the correct decision to make. You were asking thibs to trade his best asset and future assets on the hope that Doncic is good and it is just as likely Doncic could of been the next Jan Vesley, Bender, Hezonja, Belly. In the end Doncic was an unknown with question marks.

You can blame thibs for some things (Dieng contact, Dunn pick, Patton pick even though I think he got unlucky on that) but to bash thibs for not making a trade that wasn't realistic or never been done in the NBA is silly to me.

None of them drafted Doncic and none of them attract big name FA's. You can rebuild through trades as well, not just the draft. Wouldn't all three of those teams really be better off then where they are? Yes they could be. They could resign Butler, and potentially add pieces around him.

Just saying, well no, it was impossible. No team would want Butler. But wait, The Heat did. They were not a great team. It's not often the lower teams could trade for an All Star player, this was an instance. It was certainly possible. If that didn't work you immediately move onto plan B and trade Butler for the next best option.

Thibs did neither. He held onto Butler, watched the team implode and become a laughing stock in the news cycle everyday.

So do you think Thibs handled the Butler situation well? lol

Was it handled perfectly hell no, but if you want to blame a person blame Taylor, he gave Thibs the duel role. What is Thibs supposed to do, he is on the boarderline of getting fired, the only way to keep his job is to win games. So in what world does it make sense for Thibs to trade away his best player for any unproven rookie. Once again trading Butler made sense for the organization but it made 0 sense for Thibs because he is pretty much firing himself trading Butler.

It was on Taylor to either fire Thibs or let Thibs do his job and try and win basketball games.

Since Thibs was closest to the team he would have known that the in fighting between Towns and Butler was more severe then we could have even known at the time. He had to know obviously that Butler was not resigning longterm here with KAT and Wiggins on the books. Mathematically it was never going to work. Their personalities clashed. I'm sure more then a few things happened in practice, behind closed doors.

Taylor isn't the GSW owner who will spend tens or hundreds of millions to win. I don't blame him for that. If Thibs did manage to trade Butler earlier for Doncic (traded up, traded up again, whatever) and Doncic showed promise his rookie year, he actually would still be here. So in a way, we are lucky and not lucky.

Of course I have ripped Glen for being a terrible owner for most of his time here. He's made poor moves over and over. Thibs was one of many. I blamed him for not firing Thibs earlier then he did. Most disagree but I thought Thibs should have been fired after making the playoffs. I don't care about previous regime history. I only care if the team is currently on a path to winning or not. Winning as in having a plan to compete for a championship. Holding onto Butler for one more rental year wasn't going to bring a championship, so under those simple rules, I would have went another way with Thibs. The trajectory of what Thibs was doing wasn't working well enough.

You are ripping Thibs for not making a hypothetical trade that was never going to happen.

Holy shit Kevin Mchale was a fucking idiot for not trading Sprewell and the 26th pick for Lebron James, Dwade, Melo or Bosh. But holy shit he was a genius for not trading them for Darko.

Yes the 1% chance Doncic became what he became would have worked but what happens if he would of been the next Darko. We would have traded our only asset in Butler, and multiple 1st round picks and then we are fucked going forward. I know you loved Doncic (good on you) but there is so much hindsight bias here.

It made 0 sense for Thibs to fire himself and trade his best asset and multiple future assets for a rookie who was not even close to a sure thing.

Once again you are making up a hypothetic in your head that had less than a 1% chance of happening and you are ripping Thibs for it. Im pissed that Rosas didn't trade Wiggins and multiple 1st for Zion. Dammit what an idiot, Im going to start ripping Rosas for the rest of the year because we don't have the Zion and Towns combo.

If you look at the entire picture it was the only thing that would save him his job. Butler with KAT and Wiggins wasn't going to work, it wasn't even working AT THE TIME!!! Personality wise and financially with Butler due another 20 million some dollar raise coming the next offseason.

I'm not ripping Thibs for only that, but it was obvious what he had, was never going to work in bringing a championship. It's quite fair to say, show me a plan to how you are going to compete for a championship or you are fired. His drafts prior hadn't proven a competent track to success. His players extended and brought in were not wise either as a whole.

It's like saying I can't criticize someone for being an idiot. They are too stupid to criticize. Ultimately, yes Taylor is to blame. He should have fired Thibs sooner so we could have retooled a season quicker. That would have been optimal.