Minnesota Sports Forum

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Iggy is lucky he can play defense because the rest of his game is well below average.

Iggy is a good player. If only Wiggins and Zach were as good, we'd have made the playoffs.

Iggy is good because of his defense. But no sir, he is no Andrew Wiggins.

Very different players and given their age, I want Wiggy. But Iggy is the better player now. Finals MVP and his on court impact was miles better than Wiggy.

He plays with a lot of great players, and they make him better. I'll give him his due, but he is nothing like Andrew Wiggins.

Sure, I agree. But that could be taken as a compliment.

Wig gets criticized a lot here, much more than he deserves. 95% of the time I read it and bite my lip. But when someone tries to tell me Andre Iquodala is miles better than Andrew it's time to bring some sanity to the conversation.

I said on court impact is miles better. Iggy's RPM is very good and Wiggy's not so much. I wanted Wiggy as much as anyone here, and he still has a pretty high ceiling, but until he becomes a two way player, he is fair game for criticism.

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Iggy is lucky he can play defense because the rest of his game is well below average.

Iggy is a good player. If only Wiggins and Zach were as good, we'd have made the playoffs.

Iggy is good because of his defense. But no sir, he is no Andrew Wiggins.

Very different players and given their age, I want Wiggy. But Iggy is the better player now. Finals MVP and his on court impact was miles better than Wiggy.

He plays with a lot of great players, and they make him better. I'll give him his due, but he is nothing like Andrew Wiggins.

Sure, I agree. But that could be taken as a compliment.

Wig gets criticized a lot here, much more than he deserves. 95% of the time I read it and bite my lip. But when someone tries to tell me Andre Iquodala is miles better than Andrew it's time to bring some sanity to the conversation.

I said on court impact is miles better. Iggy's RPM is very good and Wiggy's not so much. I wanted Wiggy as much as anyone here, and he still has a pretty high ceiling, but until he becomes a two way player, he is fair game for criticism.

They don't play the same role so it's not fair criticism. Wiggins is our number 2 option (number 1 on a lot of nights) and guards the best opposing wing. Iggy comes off the bench and plays next to 4 all-stars in a death lineup and gets to hit spot up three's, get out in transition and focus on defense. Wiggins would be a monster role player if he got to do that. If they swap teams the Warriors get even deadlier and we get significantly worse because Iggy can't carry an offense most nights anymore.

khans2k5 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Iggy is lucky he can play defense because the rest of his game is well below average.

Iggy is a good player. If only Wiggins and Zach were as good, we'd have made the playoffs.

Iggy is good because of his defense. But no sir, he is no Andrew Wiggins.

Very different players and given their age, I want Wiggy. But Iggy is the better player now. Finals MVP and his on court impact was miles better than Wiggy.

He plays with a lot of great players, and they make him better. I'll give him his due, but he is nothing like Andrew Wiggins.

Sure, I agree. But that could be taken as a compliment.

Wig gets criticized a lot here, much more than he deserves. 95% of the time I read it and bite my lip. But when someone tries to tell me Andre Iquodala is miles better than Andrew it's time to bring some sanity to the conversation.

I said on court impact is miles better. Iggy's RPM is very good and Wiggy's not so much. I wanted Wiggy as much as anyone here, and he still has a pretty high ceiling, but until he becomes a two way player, he is fair game for criticism.

They don't play the same role so it's not fair criticism. Wiggins is our number 2 option (number 1 on a lot of nights) and guards the best opposing wing. Iggy comes off the bench and plays next to 4 all-stars in a death lineup and gets to hit spot up three's, get out in transition and focus on defense. Wiggins would be a monster role player if he got to do that. If they swap teams the Warriors get even deadlier and we get significantly worse because Iggy can't carry an offense most nights anymore.

I don't think Wiggy would be a better role player than Iggy. Most of the criticism about Wiggy's game is that he only scores and doesn't "do shit". Iggy doesn't score a lot, but plays defense and does a lot of shit.

I like Wiggy, but he's far from a finished product.

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Iggy is lucky he can play defense because the rest of his game is well below average.

Iggy is a good player. If only Wiggins and Zach were as good, we'd have made the playoffs.

Iggy is good because of his defense. But no sir, he is no Andrew Wiggins.

Very different players and given their age, I want Wiggy. But Iggy is the better player now. Finals MVP and his on court impact was miles better than Wiggy.

He plays with a lot of great players, and they make him better. I'll give him his due, but he is nothing like Andrew Wiggins.

Sure, I agree. But that could be taken as a compliment.

Wig gets criticized a lot here, much more than he deserves. 95% of the time I read it and bite my lip. But when someone tries to tell me Andre Iquodala is miles better than Andrew it's time to bring some sanity to the conversation.

I said on court impact is miles better. Iggy's RPM is very good and Wiggy's not so much. I wanted Wiggy as much as anyone here, and he still has a pretty high ceiling, but until he becomes a two way player, he is fair game for criticism.

Shit if only we had ZAZA (#4 in Center RPM) instead of KAT (#11 in center RPM) we would have made the playoffs.

*you can't use one stat to create all your opinions

Who cares, Iggy would be a huge plus to our team. Andrew is already here.

TeamRicky wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

TeamRicky wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:Iggy is lucky he can play defense because the rest of his game is well below average.

Iggy is a good player. If only Wiggins and Zach were as good, we'd have made the playoffs.

Iggy is good because of his defense. But no sir, he is no Andrew Wiggins.

Very different players and given their age, I want Wiggy. But Iggy is the better player now. Finals MVP and his on court impact was miles better than Wiggy.

He plays with a lot of great players, and they make him better. I'll give him his due, but he is nothing like Andrew Wiggins.

Sure, I agree. But that could be taken as a compliment.

Wig gets criticized a lot here, much more than he deserves. 95% of the time I read it and bite my lip. But when someone tries to tell me Andre Iquodala is miles better than Andrew it's time to bring some sanity to the conversation.

I said on court impact is miles better. Iggy's RPM is very good and Wiggy's not so much. I wanted Wiggy as much as anyone here, and he still has a pretty high ceiling, but until he becomes a two way player, he is fair game for criticism.

They don't play the same role so it's not fair criticism. Wiggins is our number 2 option (number 1 on a lot of nights) and guards the best opposing wing. Iggy comes off the bench and plays next to 4 all-stars in a death lineup and gets to hit spot up three's, get out in transition and focus on defense. Wiggins would be a monster role player if he got to do that. If they swap teams the Warriors get even deadlier and we get significantly worse because Iggy can't carry an offense most nights anymore.

I don't think Wiggy would be a better role player than Iggy. Most of the criticism about Wiggy's game is that he only scores and doesn't "do shit". Iggy doesn't score a lot, but plays defense and does a lot of shit.

I like Wiggy, but he's far from a finished product.

Wiggy's career is just different if he stays with the Cavs or plays on a good team where he doesn't have to try to carry the load on both ends of the floor. Good basketball is infectious and having veteran leaders who are all-stars keep you in check and make sure you do the right things would completely change the player he is today. And you're right, he's not a finished product. That's what would make him even more scary. He would have actually had the time to develop a more all-around game as a role player than as the leading man playing 37 minutes a night for a bad team.

I'd love the have Iggy on the Wolves. Would I trade Wiggins for Iggy? Not on your life!! But I don't think that's what Ricky was implying in his post.

Iggy is a better player right now, but he's a polished highly experienced veteran. Wiggins is the most talented player in my view. It's not even close in my book if we're talking about pure talent. Wiggins just turned 22 and is entering his 4th NBA season. He's already a really good scorer. He has to substantially improve in a lot of areas, but I expect a huge leap from him next season and I wouldn't hesitate to offer him a max extension next fall. It's up to Wiggins to put the work in and motivate himself to improve. But it's also up to the head coach to use Wiggins in ways that take maximum advantage of his abilities without exposing his weaknesses. Same with KAT and LaVine.

The Iggy vs. Wiggins debate is an interesting one. And there are so many variables to consider.

But the polarization between the two players is startling. Iggy is the King of the Do-Shit Role-Playing All Stars who secretly does stuff to win games. Wiggins is the King of the Potentially Awesome, but Currently Posting Big Scoring Stats but not much else All Stars that hasn't found out how to consistently use his talents to win games.

Obviously, the Wolves run with Wiggins and don't think twice. He could be a superstar down the line. He's super good at a few things. But would the Warriors be better with Wiggins than Iguodala? Iggy does so many things for that team. Things that don't necessarily show up in the boxscore. He's definitely more than a defensive specialist. And he's shown that throughout his career... averaging 20/6/5 at one point.

For me, Iguodala is sort of a cross between Ron Harper and Manu Ginobili. If you're a playoff team looking to get over the hump... that's not a bad guy to have on your team.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Iggy vs. Wiggins debate is an interesting one. And there are so many variables to consider.

But the polarization between the two players is startling. Iggy is the King of the Do-Shit Role-Playing All Stars who secretly does stuff to win games. Wiggins is the King of the Potentially Awesome, but Currently Posting Big Scoring Stats but not much else All Stars that hasn't found out how to consistently use his talents to win games.

Obviously, the Wolves run with Wiggins and don't think twice. He could be a superstar down the line. He's super good at a few things. But would the Warriors be better with Wiggins than Iguodala? Iggy does so many things for that team. Things that don't necessarily show up in the boxscore. He's definitely more than a defensive specialist. And he's shown that throughout his career... averaging 20/6/5 at one point.

For me, Iguodala is sort of a cross between Ron Harper and Manu Ginobili. If you're a playoff team looking to get over the hump... that's not a bad guy to have on your team.

I've loved Iggy for years and although I hope Wiggins becomes better at some point, I don't think he's there yet. Iggy's all-around game arguably makes him more valuable to his team still today, although obviously it's great to have Wiggins because of his age and potential for improvement.

The thing I keep thinking about after watching these finals is that unless the Warriors or even the Cavs have injury problems in the next 2-3 years, everybody's got a real big hump to get over. It's sad to think, but I think especially in the West, it's going to be really impressive just to make it to the conference finals for the foreseeable future. That team is just so crazy good.

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:The Iggy vs. Wiggins debate is an interesting one. And there are so many variables to consider.

But the polarization between the two players is startling. Iggy is the King of the Do-Shit Role-Playing All Stars who secretly does stuff to win games. Wiggins is the King of the Potentially Awesome, but Currently Posting Big Scoring Stats but not much else All Stars that hasn't found out how to consistently use his talents to win games.

Obviously, the Wolves run with Wiggins and don't think twice. He could be a superstar down the line. He's super good at a few things. But would the Warriors be better with Wiggins than Iguodala? Iggy does so many things for that team. Things that don't necessarily show up in the boxscore. He's definitely more than a defensive specialist. And he's shown that throughout his career... averaging 20/6/5 at one point.

For me, Iguodala is sort of a cross between Ron Harper and Manu Ginobili. If you're a playoff team looking to get over the hump... that's not a bad guy to have on your team.

I've loved Iggy for years and although I hope Wiggins becomes better at some point, I don't think he's there yet. Iggy's all-around game arguably makes him more valuable to his team still today, although obviously it's great to have Wiggins because of his age and potential for improvement.

The thing I keep thinking about after watching these finals is that unless the Warriors or even the Cavs have injury problems in the next 2-3 years, everybody's got a real big hump to get over. It's sad to think, but I think especially in the West, it's going to be really impressive just to make it to the conference finals for the foreseeable future. That team is just so crazy good.

The other angle is "The Curse of More."

It takes a special group of players to stick together and do the little things that are necessary to win titles. Bill Simmons and Isiah Thomas talked about it in Simmons' book. It seems like GSW has a few things going for it though...

1) Age. These guys aren't super young. They know their place.
2) How they play. They play an unselfish style so everybody can still "get theirs"
3) Kerr and leadership. Seems to be legit and stable.
4) All-time legacies. Players care. Durant cares. Curry cares. And they can move up all-time lists with more titles. Together.

What about Draymond Green? He had a very rough 2016 offseason. He's more than a bit volatile. He's been known to hunt triple doubles. Will his 4th wheel status begin to wear on him as he takes a backseat offensively while doing crazy good (and less noticed) work defensively?

Klay Thompson? Will he ever want to branch out just to see what could happen as THE guy?

Role players? Iggy as the do-everything guy has a shelf life. Who's the next Livingston?

Regardless, they look great. And every other prominent team will be crafted specifically to try to beat them. And it's going to start in Ohio. Love is gone. He and Thompson together can't beat GSW, but as 2 of the team's top 4 players, they have to be out there together.

2018 looms.

GSW vs. CLE, v4.0.