Minnesota Sports Forum

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

Yeah, could be a tough season. The bottom line is that our starting backcourt is simply not up to par and it's really hard to win in the NBA with mediocre backcourt play. While DLO catches a ton of the heat (and deservedly so), Ant has regressed. That by far is the biggest story line of this young season so far.

Yeah, I agree that the regression of our backcourt is the story so far. Ant's regression hurts more because little was expected from DLo and many of us were counting on a third year leap from Ant, but the below average defense and lack of offensive flow from this pair really hurts us.

The other story line from this season is that after a year of playing teams missing their best players, we haven't been as fortunate this season. But that could be changing! We faced a very good Cavs team missing three of their best players, and tonight Banchero is out and possibly Carter Jr....and of course Isaac, Fultz, Harris and Anthony have been out all season. Finchie's injury luck returns!

FNG wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

Yeah, could be a tough season. The bottom line is that our starting backcourt is simply not up to par and it's really hard to win in the NBA with mediocre backcourt play. While DLO catches a ton of the heat (and deservedly so), Ant has regressed. That by far is the biggest story line of this young season so far.

Yeah, I agree that the regression of our backcourt is the story so far. Ant's regression hurts more because little was expected from DLo and many of us were counting on a third year leap from Ant, but the below average defense and lack of offensive flow from this pair really hurts us.

The other story line from this season is that after a year of playing teams missing their best players, we haven't been as fortunate this season. But that could be changing! We faced a very good Cavs team missing three of their best players, and tonight Banchero is out and possibly Carter Jr....and of course Isaac, Fultz, Harris and Anthony have been out all season. Finchie's injury luck returns!

Ha! Indeed it does.

BTW, Finchie can't go unscathed here with the early-season blues. You have multiple guys who are having below average years relative to their career numbers and most are in the prime of their career age-wise, which means we are underachieving. It can't all be DLO's fault!

Q-was-here wrote:

FNG wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

Yeah, could be a tough season. The bottom line is that our starting backcourt is simply not up to par and it's really hard to win in the NBA with mediocre backcourt play. While DLO catches a ton of the heat (and deservedly so), Ant has regressed. That by far is the biggest story line of this young season so far.

Yeah, I agree that the regression of our backcourt is the story so far. Ant's regression hurts more because little was expected from DLo and many of us were counting on a third year leap from Ant, but the below average defense and lack of offensive flow from this pair really hurts us.

The other story line from this season is that after a year of playing teams missing their best players, we haven't been as fortunate this season. But that could be changing! We faced a very good Cavs team missing three of their best players, and tonight Banchero is out and possibly Carter Jr....and of course Isaac, Fultz, Harris and Anthony have been out all season. Finchie's injury luck returns!

Ha! Indeed it does.

BTW, Finchie can't go unscathed here with the early-season blues. You have multiple guys who are having below average years relative to their career numbers and most are in the prime of their career age-wise, which means we are underachieving. It can't all be DLO's fault!

No, I'm starting to look a lot closer at Finchie also after being an unabashed advocate since he came here. There seems to be a lot less joy in the team and him compared to last year...and just look at the Vikings to see how a joyful team performs. I also don't think he is holding players accountable for not playing the type of offense and defense he wants. The Wolves are actually getting some practice time in this week with the less busy schedule. I heard Finchie on the radio talking about what he was going to work on in practice, and it will be interesting to see if a different Wolves team shows up. It should be an easy win against a beat-up Magic team, so I'm more interested in how they play. Still rubefully holding on to some optimism for the season...

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

I also don't think we should be overacting to 14 games of basketbell. In the Eastern conference the top 10 seeds on Nov. 16th. 4 of the ten did not make the playoffs (40%) and 2 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (20%). In the west 4 of the ten top seeds on Nov. 16th did not make the playoffs (40%) and 3 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (30%). The Grizzlies were the 8 seed at this time last year and pulled away with the 2 seed. The 03-04 Wolves were only 8-6 at this time and then they got really hot 10 days later and they were the 1 seed.

I know we romanticize about last years team but last years team on Nov. 16th compared to this wolves team is 1.5 GB of this years team. The Wolves are 9 points better per 100 possessions this year compared to last years squad on Nov. 16th. Wolves currently have a net rating of -1.0 per 100 possessions last years team had a net rating of -4.2 per 100 possession on Nov. 16th.

I know people are mentioning a ton on who have we beat, well this is not college football as far as I know where strength of schedule (or if you play in the SEC) matters and I can play it the other way. Look who we have lost 2. The regning West #1 seed in the Suns twice, the reigning West #2 seed in the grizzlies, the Vegas NBA champion favorite the Bucks, tied for the 2nd most wins in the NBA UTAH Jazz, lost to Knicks when the Wolves didn't have Rudy (If you are going to say the Cavs win isn't impressive then this loss does not matter) and lost to the spurs (2 bad losses).

Once again, the Wolves might not figure it out. They zigged when the rest of the league was zagging but at the end of the day its freaking 14 games into the season. I mean the Wizards were the 1 seed this time last year and they didn't even make the play in. Wolves have a lot of talent and I will admit it has not been pretty at times but they have played good in my opinion the last 2 games. And please don't give me that the wolves almost lost to a lesser Cavs teams, who knows what would of happened if the other 2 players played. I doubt Garland gets the ball every possession to get out of his shooting slump and drop 50 on the wolves. Its such butterfly effect.

That is all I have for the day. Just relax. Now if we are 30 games in and it still look not great sure panic. But I have proved over and over again that things change a ton in the NBA and to lock the wolves into fighting to play in when 40% of last years top 10 seeds on Nov 16th didn't make the playoffs proves we are being a little over reactionary.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

I also don't think we should be overacting to 14 games of basketbell. In the Eastern conference the top 10 seeds on Nov. 16th. 4 of the ten did not make the playoffs (40%) and 2 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (20%). In the west 4 of the ten top seeds on Nov. 16th did not make the playoffs (40%) and 3 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (30%). The Grizzlies were the 8 seed at this time last year and pulled away with the 2 seed. The 03-04 Wolves were only 8-6 at this time and then they got really hot 10 days later and they were the 1 seed.

I know we romanticize about last years team but last years team on Nov. 16th compared to this wolves team is 1.5 GB of this years team. The Wolves are 9 points better per 100 possessions this year compared to last years squad on Nov. 16th. Wolves currently have a net rating of -1.0 per 100 possessions last years team had a net rating of -4.2 per 100 possession on Nov. 16th.

I know people are mentioning a ton on who have we beat, well this is not college football as far as I know where strength of schedule (or if you play in the SEC) matters and I can play it the other way. Look who we have lost 2. The regning West #1 seed in the Suns twice, the reigning West #2 seed in the grizzlies, the Vegas NBA champion favorite the Bucks, tied for the 2nd most wins in the NBA UTAH Jazz, lost to Knicks when the Wolves didn't have Rudy (If you are going to say the Cavs win isn't impressive then this loss does not matter) and lost to the spurs (2 bad losses).

Once again, the Wolves might not figure it out. They zigged when the rest of the league was zagging but at the end of the day its freaking 14 games into the season. I mean the Wizards were the 1 seed this time last year and they didn't even make the play in. Wolves have a lot of talent and I will admit it has not been pretty at times but they have played good in my opinion the last 2 games. And please don't give me that the wolves almost lost to a lesser Cavs teams, who knows what would of happened if the other 2 players played. I doubt Garland gets the ball every possession to get out of his shooting slump and drop 50 on the wolves. Its such butterfly effect.

That is all I have for the day. Just relax. Now if we are 30 games in and it still look not great sure panic. But I have proved over and over again that things change a ton in the NBA and to lock the wolves into fighting to play in when 40% of last years top 10 seeds on Nov 16th didn't make the playoffs proves we are being a little over reactionary.

Good post Kek. I think the bottom line is that there are legitimate reasons to be concerned, but not legitimate reasons to panic and demand drastic changes. It's still so early.

But if they lose to Orlando tonight.....Grrrrrr.

I'm with you Kek. It's hard to be patient with all the negativity about the team's start. But that's exactly what I'm going to do. If we are floundering at the 30 game mark, I'll begin to hit the panic button. You can't tell me smart people are unable to figure out how to win with two all-NBA players on the roster. I guarantee you I could do it.

Even if they turn this around this year Id be fine if they traded KAT in the offseason. He's insufferable, and I don't believe he thinks he's a bad defender which has made it impossible for him to improve. If they can get any sort of large deal for picks and talent Im all in. We start next year fresh with Ant's team and recoupe some draft assets from any team dumb enough to think Kat is a winner.

kekgeek1 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:The emergence of the Kings and Blazers this season means the Wolves are one of 10 teams vying for a playoff spot in the West (assuming you exclude Utah). The Blazers are 10-4 even though Lillard has missed some games. Looks like the Wolves will be fighting it out for a place in the 7-10 range.

I also don't think we should be overacting to 14 games of basketbell. In the Eastern conference the top 10 seeds on Nov. 16th. 4 of the ten did not make the playoffs (40%) and 2 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (20%). In the west 4 of the ten top seeds on Nov. 16th did not make the playoffs (40%) and 3 of those 4 didn't even make the play in game (30%). The Grizzlies were the 8 seed at this time last year and pulled away with the 2 seed. The 03-04 Wolves were only 8-6 at this time and then they got really hot 10 days later and they were the 1 seed.

I know we romanticize about last years team but last years team on Nov. 16th compared to this wolves team is 1.5 GB of this years team. The Wolves are 9 points better per 100 possessions this year compared to last years squad on Nov. 16th. Wolves currently have a net rating of -1.0 per 100 possessions last years team had a net rating of -4.2 per 100 possession on Nov. 16th.

I know people are mentioning a ton on who have we beat, well this is not college football as far as I know where strength of schedule (or if you play in the SEC) matters and I can play it the other way. Look who we have lost 2. The regning West #1 seed in the Suns twice, the reigning West #2 seed in the grizzlies, the Vegas NBA champion favorite the Bucks, tied for the 2nd most wins in the NBA UTAH Jazz, lost to Knicks when the Wolves didn't have Rudy (If you are going to say the Cavs win isn't impressive then this loss does not matter) and lost to the spurs (2 bad losses).

Once again, the Wolves might not figure it out. They zigged when the rest of the league was zagging but at the end of the day its freaking 14 games into the season. I mean the Wizards were the 1 seed this time last year and they didn't even make the play in. Wolves have a lot of talent and I will admit it has not been pretty at times but they have played good in my opinion the last 2 games. And please don't give me that the wolves almost lost to a lesser Cavs teams, who knows what would of happened if the other 2 players played. I doubt Garland gets the ball every possession to get out of his shooting slump and drop 50 on the wolves. Its such butterfly effect.

That is all I have for the day. Just relax. Now if we are 30 games in and it still look not great sure panic. But I have proved over and over again that things change a ton in the NBA and to lock the wolves into fighting to play in when 40% of last years top 10 seeds on Nov 16th didn't make the playoffs proves we are being a little over reactionary.

My point was that the entire conference is significantly deeper than last season. And that makes it harder for Wolves to do better than the 7th place finish they achieved last season, especially after getting off to a bad start. That's not unreasonable doom and gloom; it's just a sober appraisal of the situation right now. Yes, the situation can change depending on whether and how fast the Wolves get it together. The Wolves are showing some good signs tonight against a depleted Orlando squad and showed some good signs the other night against Cleveland. The ball movement is much better and having Anderson on the court really helps. So all is not lost. But this is a tougher conference than last season and the Wolves have dug themselves a bit of a hole, albeit an early hole they can certainly climb out of.

thedoper wrote:Even if they turn this around this year Id be fine if they traded KAT in the offseason. He's insufferable, and I don't believe he thinks he's a bad defender which has made it impossible for him to improve. If they can get any sort of large deal for picks and talent Im all in. We start next year fresh with Ant's team and recoupe some draft assets from any team dumb enough to think Kat is a winner.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs this season, then everything should be on the table next summer. But if this team gets its act together as many on this Board think they will, finishes in the top six and advances out of the first round, then I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Towns. Is he a winner? Basketball is a team game. So the "winner" brand is properly applied to teams, not individual players. KAT is not MJ, Kobe, LeBron. He's not Embiid or Jokic, although he's not far below either of those two. But he's a perennial all-star who can do things that no other big man in the League can do.

My issue with Russell has always been consistency, not ability. In contrast, Towns has been one of the League's most consistent players. He's been consistently highly productive AND efficient as a scorer. He's also been one of the League's best rebounders. This season, he's raised his level of play as a passer. Defense remains a weakness for him, but he has clearly improved defensively from early in his career. As for winning, Towns was a winner last season when the team won 46 games and he was a winner in Butler's one season here. In other words, put some decent talent around Towns and he is, in fact, a winner even as he annoys us all with some of his antics.

If Ant becomes the superstar he's capable of becoming and DLO shows the sort of consistency he showed in his one all-star season with the Nets, then this team can be a winner and Towns will be a huge part of the team's winning.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:Even if they turn this around this year Id be fine if they traded KAT in the offseason. He's insufferable, and I don't believe he thinks he's a bad defender which has made it impossible for him to improve. If they can get any sort of large deal for picks and talent Im all in. We start next year fresh with Ant's team and recoupe some draft assets from any team dumb enough to think Kat is a winner.

If this team doesn't make the playoffs this season, then everything should be on the table next summer. But if this team gets its act together as many on this Board think they will, finishes in the top six and advances out of the first round, then I think it would be a huge mistake to trade Towns. Is he a winner? Basketball is a team game. So the "winner" brand is properly applied to teams, not individual players. KAT is not MJ, Kobe, LeBron. He's not Embiid or Jokic, although he's not far below either of those two. But he's a perennial all-star who can do things that no other big man in the League can do.

My issue with Russell has always been consistency, not ability. In contrast, Towns has been one of the League's most consistent players. He's been consistently highly productive AND efficient as a scorer. He's also been one of the League's best rebounders. This season, he's raised his level of play as a passer. Defense remains a weakness for him, but he has clearly improved defensively from early in his career. As for winning, Towns was a winner last season when the team won 46 games and he was a winner in Butler's one season here. In other words, put some decent talent around Towns and he is, in fact, a winner even as he annoys us all with some of his antics.

If Ant becomes the superstar he's capable of becoming and DLO shows the sort of consistency he showed in his one all-star season with the Nets, then this team can be a winner and Towns will be a huge part of the team's winning.

I think you can win with Towns on your team. But if hes your 1a or b and you have to craft such a specific lineup to make up for his deficiencies I dont know what your ceiling is. Id rather him be a 3rd option and paid like it but no way is that happening in Minnesota. I think it could be worth looking at dealing him while he still has lots of legit value for all of the talent he has that you properly listed.