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Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2023 11:57 pm
by Camden [enjin:6601484]
Minnesota's five-man lineup of D'Angelo Russell, Anthony Edwards, Jaden McDaniels, Kyle Anderson, and Naz Reid were +22 in 19 minutes tonight. Simply, the starting unit dominated when they were on the floor. It didn't always feel like it, but they were too much for Toronto.
Against Utah, Chris Finch failed to get his best players back in the game early enough in the fourth quarter, and it directly led to Minnesota losing the game. Tonight was a different story. Finch got them all back in the fourth quarter at the 9:45 mark. Toronto didn't get their starters back on the floor until 6:49 left to play.
Why is that significant? The Timberwolves cut the lead from 14 to six during those three minutes with Fred VanVleet, O.G. Anunoby, and Gary Trent Jr. sitting on the Raptors' bench.
I have often criticized Finch this season, and deservedly so in my mind, but he rolled the dice on his guys having enough gas in the tank to get the job done -- even on the second night of a back-to-back. Getting those five back on the floor together when he did was absolutely crucial. Stole a win and got the best of his pal Nick Nurse. Good job, Finchy.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:19 am
by Leado01
CoolBreeze44 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:Dlo came up clutch. Good shit
Is Cam happy? That's really the most important thing.
He got mad at me because I pointed out that Prince and Slow Mo were yelling at him for his defensive rotations.
But after my post Dlo locked in and won the wolves the game. Got the full Dlo experience and it ended in a win
Prince was the +/- loser tonight.
Which goes to show the value of single player +/-. He played well and gave us at least some toughness to keep the game sort of in reach!
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:23 am
by kekgeek
leado01 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:CoolBreeze44 wrote:kekgeek1 wrote:Dlo came up clutch. Good shit
Is Cam happy? That's really the most important thing.
He got mad at me because I pointed out that Prince and Slow Mo were yelling at him for his defensive rotations.
But after my post Dlo locked in and won the wolves the game. Got the full Dlo experience and it ended in a win
Prince was the +/- loser tonight.
Which goes to show the value of single player +/-. He played well and gave us at least some toughness to keep the game sort of in reach!
100% single game +\- of the worst stat ever. I do think lineup data long term can be useful and obviously I post a lot of that on here.
I mean KCP is currently number 2 in the NBA in net rating and I don't think that is because he is the second best player in the nba. Context always matters when doing +\- and lineup data
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 12:57 am
by mrhockey89
Wait, are you guys suggesting Darko's +42 in his 1st game in a Wolves uni after contemplating retirement wasn't mana from heaven, but rather fools gold?
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:02 am
by davemang
This team can really defend well in stretches - last few minutes of the fourth felt like a completely different team. I've been impressed with nowell's hustle on defense lately too. Game ball to slomo - consistent steady hand the kept us from getting too far out of reach and getting blown out. Tough game for our centers though - this is a game where I think towns puts his stamp on it and goes for like 30 if he's playing.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:10 am
by davemang
Camden wrote:Shoutout to Ant for his fourth quarter defense. Not sure it was mentioned or not, but he was working his ass off. Deserves recognition for it. He's an absolute animal when he locks in there.
Love watching him D up big boys who like to drive like Barnes and siakam because he's strong enough to keep them out of the paint, but so much quicker that they have no hope of going around him.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 1:43 am
by Lipoli390
This win was emblematic of this team's identity. The team was built to score. Not having KAT's 23-25 efficient points per game hurts a lot for that reason. But it's still a scoring team with Edwards, DLO, Nowell, Naz and the remaining cast. In the previous game against Denver, the Wolves scored a lot of points but came up just short with Edwards and DLO below their scoring averages. In this game, Edwards and DLO both did what they can do offensively and the result was a win. Some would argue that DLO's performance enhances his trade value and enhances the opportunity to trade him for good value. I would argue that tonight's game is a reason to keep him. As I've said before, his has his faults but he's a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and turn what should be a loss into a win. That's what he did tonight, but he's done it a number of times including last season's play-in game against the Clippers.
Tonight's game also underscored the value of Kyle Anderson. Cam has been critical of Finch's coaching this season for good reason even though we've disagreed about that from time to time, but he appropriately praised his coaching tonight. I've been highly critical of Connelly for the Gobert deal, but I'll take this opportunity to praise him as I have before for signing Anderson.
Edwards, Anderson, McDaniels and Prince can all defend as well as score and it looks like McDaniels is starting to take a bit of a leap offensively. So there's no reason this team should be terrible defensively. Our front office needs to recognize who we are with Ant as our centerpiece - i.e., an offensively skilled, high-scoring team. As this organization continues to build this team, it should focus on and have a roster suited to that identity. That's why Nowell still makes sense for this team in spite of how frustrating he can be at times. He's still young and there's more growth there we can and should expect from him. I'd add Garza to the list of players on this roster I view as keepers along with Ant, McDaniels, Anderson, Prince and KAT. DLO remains a question mark in my mind, but tonight's game was reminder that he could be a good long-term fit.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:09 am
by Q-is-here
KiwiMatt wrote:I half watched the game and was about ready to turn it off down 14 points with less that 10 mins to go in the 4th Quarter. I was about to cuss DLo's name from the roof top too.
But what a remarkable comeback and props to DLO for nailing four consecutive 3pt shots. Its wins like this that can turn seasons around. Hopefully this win does
Unfortunately we have thought that multiple times, only to be profoundly disappointed within days by a bad loss.
Such is the life of a .500-ish team. You're going to have some pretty cool games to get to 40 wins. You are also going to have some awful losses.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:38 am
by Q-is-here
lipoli390 wrote:This win was emblematic of this team's identity. The team was built to score. Not having KAT's 23-25 efficient points per game hurts a lot for that reason. But it's still a scoring team with Edwards, DLO, Nowell, Naz and the remaining cast. In the previous game against Denver, the Wolves scored a lot of points but came up just short with Edwards and DLO below their scoring averages. In this game, Edwards and DLO both did what they can do offensively and the result was a win. Some would argue that DLO's performance enhances his trade value and enhances the opportunity to trade him for good value. I would argue that tonight's game is a reason to keep him. As I've said before, his has his faults but he's a guy who can put the team on his shoulders and turn what should be a loss into a win. That's what he did tonight, but he's done it a number of times including last season's play-in game against the Clippers.
Tonight's game also underscored the value of Kyle Anderson. Cam has been critical of Finch's coaching this season for good reason even though we've disagreed about that from time to time, but he appropriately praised his coaching tonight. I've been highly critical of Connelly for the Gobert deal, but I'll take this opportunity to praise him as I have before for signing Anderson.
Edwards, Anderson, McDaniels and Prince can all defend as well as score and it looks like McDaniels is starting to take a bit of a leap offensively. So there's no reason this team should be terrible defensively. Our front office needs to recognize who we are with Ant as our centerpiece - i.e., an offensively skilled, high-scoring team. As this organization continues to build this team, it should focus on and have a roster suited to that identity. That's why Nowell still makes sense for this team in spite of how frustrating he can be at times. He's still young and there's more growth there we can and should expect from him. I'd add Garza to the list of players on this roster I view as keepers along with Ant, McDaniels, Anderson, Prince and KAT. DLO remains a question mark in my mind, but tonight's game was reminder that he could be a good long-term fit.
Good stuff here Lip, but I'd have a different perspective on a few things...
- DLO absolutely did help save our butts last night, just as he did in that play-in game last year. But what's harder to measure is the corrosive impact of his defensive lapses and the pressure that puts on our team defense when he's on the floor. If we were to keep him, I'd prefer him as our 6th man and then let Nowell walk. We just can't afford to have two horrible backcourt defenders who are so damn streaky. One in the rotation off the bench is enough.
- I really like Prince overall as Jaden's backup. Defensively.....not so sure about him. He's really good at taking charges and he's generally a smart defender (i.e. doesn't get completely lost or fall asleep). But his lateral quickness is poor and guys can get by him pretty easily. I can see why he's played a fair bit of PF - he just has a hard time keeping wings in front of him.
- Ant continues to learn and grow, but he is still a flawed player. Of the 20+ PPG scorers in the NBA - and there are a lot of them - he's one of the least efficient. I do think his mere presence helps OTHER players become more efficient because teams are starting to really load up on him. But he's got a long ways to go to become a better shot maker.
- We need Gobert and these other guys are just going to have to figure out how to play with him. His defense is too valuable and we already know KAT is incapable of anchoring the paint effectively.
Re: The Fred VanVleet Audition - Raptors at Wolves GDT
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2023 7:39 am
by FNG
Q-was-here wrote:KiwiMatt wrote:I half watched the game and was about ready to turn it off down 14 points with less that 10 mins to go in the 4th Quarter. I was about to cuss DLo's name from the roof top too.
But what a remarkable comeback and props to DLO for nailing four consecutive 3pt shots. Its wins like this that can turn seasons around. Hopefully this win does
Unfortunately we have thought that multiple times, only to be profoundly disappointed within days by a bad loss.
Such is the life of a .500-ish team. You're going to have some pretty cool games to get to 40 wins. You are also going to have some awful losses.
So true. But we're fortunate to have the least disciplined team in the league for our next two games, and they're on a 12-game losing streak. We need to keep our heads above water until (hopefully) we come back healthy.