Minnesota Sports Forum

We are in a pickle with Russell any way you put it. I want the wolves to maintain the financial flexibility of that 30 million dollar slot even if we risk luxury tax eventually. I don't assume he signs with us nor do I really believe we are making any effort to sign him. That is why I like a potential Lowry deal. Even if current Lowry isn't worth the money either, we retain that salary slot for another year pushing financial flexibility into the new Salary Cap spike.

Total point of speculation, but I can't imagine deep down Finch likes him that much nor vice versa. He's a sticky player and Finch is always talking about ball movement and space. I also believe there is no way a player of Russell's stature could let go a playoff benching. I would think about it all the time if I were Dlo In terms of how he is treated here, I really can't say its unfair. There ample criticism of Russell outside of this franchise too based on statistical measures, and his legacy here has been mediocre in terms of winning. I don't blame him for that contract, nor do I think he is a bad player. I just don't see how they sign him and it just doesn't seem to fit when every night the coach is talking about defense, rebounding, and hustle as our reasons for losing.

So the Warriors overpaid him to unload him on somebody else. To be fair, that doesn't make the trade seem any better... even if it's partly a perception thing.

If nothing else, it set the bar for Russell as a player. Any discount will include Russell having a few more million to haggle with... I'm quite certain that context you mention will not be brought up successfully in negotiations. The starting point will be the $31.3M Russell is making.

T

leado01 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

leado01 wrote:

WolvesFan21 wrote:

thedoper wrote:I think looking to McLaughlin to replace
Dlo is foolish. But I also dont think that is the majority opinion of the board. I dont think its controversial or inaccurate to say Dlo has to be really on offensively for us to get a win. Too many injuries and too many bad defenders (Dlo being one of the worst of the starters) to not get Dlo's offensive A game.

Who is saying JMac is a starter? I only said he has been better than DLO.

?
Uhh...what? By what measurement (PER-A/TO, Shooting?, availability?)

Team is better when he is on the floor. He plays hard, talent can only take someone so far.

McLaughlin is a caretaker PG, who plays the vast majority of his minutes vs. backups. Nobody has ever developed a game plan to make things difficult for Jordan McLaughlin.

And if he's unable to make even a 1/3 of his three pointers... you better believe teams will start treating him like vintage Avery Johnson. That would leave the Wolves with two non-shooters/scorers in the starting lineup. That's a tough ask in today's NBA.

We can discuss his merits as a valuable backup, but anything more than that seems misguided.

The Wolves are better when a guy takes care of the ball and go gets the ball. Does DLO play another game for the Wolves? It's looking unlikely at this point. It's an interesting downfall. DLO has the great play in game to help the Wolves make the Playoffs (KAT was in foul trouble if I remember correctly if not fouled out). Then has a terrible playoff series, is benched, starts this year terribly, starts to make some shots and plays a few good games. Still doesn't defend and rebound though. Team has a player only meeting for nearly an hour. DLO stops following the Wolves on social media, DLO is all of a sudden sick. DLO gets traded.

Some of the statements presented here as facts are pretty deceiving.

DLO definitely did not come out of the gates on fire offensively, but his defense, with a few exceptions, has been pretty damn good and his hips and feet have been driving the offense to the spot Finch wants them driven to as well as anyone (so the narrative that he doesn't defend is questionable).

Offensively it's hard to argue with DLO's numbers since the end of November....

Yes, we see a sloppy pass every game from.DLO, but he's certainly not alone with that problem.

An alternative explanation to why DLO unfollowed the Wolves on social media would be that a fair portion of the Wolves base blames DLO for everything, and he might be a little tired of seeing it.

The Wolves fan base turned on Wiggins early on and they turned on DLO early on in the same way. That doesn't mean the fan base is correct or incorrect (as we were with Wiggins) and I agree that DLO is a $12-$18 m player, not a max guy.

But he's a pg that can deliver devastating PNR, create his own shot, deliver in the clutch, hit 3's, and play acceptable team defense, which is about what we need.

I don't think we're getting rid of him or letting him go. Finch sees what he has and is still tweaking making it work through injuries.

Leado, I also don't put any stock in the DLO unfollowing...he's never done anything to tell me he's not a good teammate or committed to the Wolves.

But I really take issue with your comment that DLo's defense has been pretty darn good. I don't think that conclusion is supported by either statistics or the eye test.

Let's start with the eye test. DLo has frustrated me to no end this season by his tendency to drift into the lane looking for steals/deflections while losing track of his man. And I think anyone who watched last night's game, the first one without Russell in a while, would conclude that the defense looked much more effective and engaged last night. Now I'll acknowledge that the defensive effort against the Nuggets may have been due to the team meeting rather than Russell's absence, but I would put my money on Russell's absence.

But statistically Russell ranks at the bottom of our roster by almost any measure I look at. His defensive rating of 116.3 on StatMuse ranks second to last on the team (only Austin Rivers is worse, and frankly his defensive numbers have not been good although he often looks good on defense). The same with his defensive rating of 116 on basketball reference. And most importantly to me, opponents score 3.7 more points per 100 possessions when Russell is on the court.

When someone's defensive lapses are so notable, and he also ranks at the bottom of the team in defensive statistics, I can only conclude that he is hurting us defensively. And unlike Jaylen Nowell who is young and still may develop into a competent defender, I think we know who DLo is.

I'll continue to cheer for DLo as long as he is on this team and I agree with those who are skeptical about what we could get back in trade, last night's Russell-less game solidified my opinion that he is not the right fit with our three stars. I don't know if the Windhorst stuff about Lowry for Russell is just conjecture or if it is something that is being discussed, but I would do that deal in a heartbeat. Miami is reportedly frustrated with Lowry's lack of offensive production, but he can still defend, and scoring is not what this team needs.

At the time I originally posted this thread, Edwards was playing poorly and I wasn't thrilled about the reports of him eating too much Popeye's fried chicken during the offseason. I tip my hat to him now because he's picked up his game since KAT went down and obviously - we needed that. So while I originally had posted all players (including Edwards) should be on the table at the deadline for possible moves, I have now moved into the camp of those who viewed him as "untouchable".

The good news is that since I originally posted this thread, both Naz Reid and DLO have picked up their play and I think both could bring something useful back. Both guys are expiring. They are both useful players. And they might be even more useful to another team. Naz doesn't have a clear path here for playing time - especially once KAT gets back. And maybe DLO would better suited where he is more of a main scoring guy or even a 6th man as some have suggested.

To be clear - I'm not saying dump these guys for garbage back. I'm just stating the obvious that if we can flip guys who are not in our long term plans for something useful back - it's a no brainer. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just think if the front office really wanted these guys (knowing the costs) - they'd have new deals by now.

Carlos Danger wrote:At the time I originally posted this thread, Edwards was playing poorly and I wasn't thrilled about the reports of him eating too much Popeye's fried chicken during the offseason. I tip my hat to him now because he's picked up his game since KAT went down and obviously - we needed that. So while I originally had posted all players (including Edwards) should be on the table at the deadline for possible moves, I have now moved into the camp of those who viewed him as "untouchable".

The good news is that since I originally posted this thread, both Naz Reid and DLO have picked up their play and I think both could bring something useful back. Both guys are expiring. They are both useful players. And they might be even more useful to another team. Naz doesn't have a clear path here for playing time - especially once KAT gets back. And maybe DLO would better suited where he is more of a main scoring guy or even a 6th man as some have suggested.

To be clear - I'm not saying dump these guys for garbage back. I'm just stating the obvious that if we can flip guys who are not in our long term plans for something useful back - it's a no brainer. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just think if the front office really wanted these guys (knowing the costs) - they'd have new deals by now.

Carlos - I think your read of the situation is probably spot on. I see the Wolves moving Reid and possibly DLO by the deadline - more likely Reid. My own view is that moving Naz would be a mistake. I see this front office making a string of bad moves, and moving Naz would be one of them, as they grasp at straws to make the Gobert deal work. They will have further depleted our assets for the future (picks and young talent) before Connelly is either fired or pulls his head/ego out of his ass realizes that the Gobert deal will never work as the vast majority of NBA observers said when the deal was made.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You build around Ant. His age and style of play don't align well with Rudy. However, his age and style do align well with guys like McDaniels, Nowell, JMac, Knight and Naz as well as Towns. I'm not suggesting I wouldn't eventually trade any of those guys, including KAT. But you keep those guys (along with Anderson) for now because they can fit well with KAT. You trade Gobert while he's still has some decent value because he doesn't fit well. And you start incorporating Moore into the rotation instead of Forbes, Matt Ryan or Rivers.

I'd like to believe that Minnesota's front office has sufficient intel that indicates that they could re-sign their impending free agents at or below market value by being patient. I don't know how realistic that is, though. To some degree, waiting could play out well for the organization if a player's market doesn't materialize as expected. However, that strategy could also result in quality talent leaving the organization with little to nothing meaningful coming back in return. It's a dangerous game to play and the only way to avoid this scenario was to extend these players before the start of the season.

Camden wrote:I'd like to believe that Minnesota's front office has sufficient intel that indicates that they could re-sign their impending free agents at or below market value by being patient. I don't know how realistic that is, though. To some degree, waiting could play out well for the organization if a player's market doesn't materialize as expected. However, that strategy could also result in quality talent leaving the organization with little to nothing meaningful coming back in return. It's a dangerous game to play and the only way to avoid this scenario was to extend these players before the start of the season.

I don't disagree with your take. I'd just add that I think there can be some resentment on the player side if they expressed a desire to stay here - but didn't get a fair offer up to this point. Because of that, I think they are less likely to take a below market value deal to stay vs. just signing elsewhere below market.

One thing though...these situations are where you hope to see some grit from players to prove the team was wrong for not locking them up. I think Naz is certainly doing that. Nowell and DLO...not terrible, but I don't think either have shown enough to make me want to resign. In that regard, maybe it was smart to let this year play out vs. signing both those guys to what could have turned out to be bad contracts.

lipoli390 wrote:

Carlos Danger wrote:At the time I originally posted this thread, Edwards was playing poorly and I wasn't thrilled about the reports of him eating too much Popeye's fried chicken during the offseason. I tip my hat to him now because he's picked up his game since KAT went down and obviously - we needed that. So while I originally had posted all players (including Edwards) should be on the table at the deadline for possible moves, I have now moved into the camp of those who viewed him as "untouchable".

The good news is that since I originally posted this thread, both Naz Reid and DLO have picked up their play and I think both could bring something useful back. Both guys are expiring. They are both useful players. And they might be even more useful to another team. Naz doesn't have a clear path here for playing time - especially once KAT gets back. And maybe DLO would better suited where he is more of a main scoring guy or even a 6th man as some have suggested.

To be clear - I'm not saying dump these guys for garbage back. I'm just stating the obvious that if we can flip guys who are not in our long term plans for something useful back - it's a no brainer. Maybe I'm reading it wrong, but I just think if the front office really wanted these guys (knowing the costs) - they'd have new deals by now.

Carlos - I think your read of the situation is probably spot on. I see the Wolves moving Reid and possibly DLO by the deadline - more likely Reid. My own view is that moving Naz would be a mistake. I see this front office making a string of bad moves, and moving Naz would be one of them, as they grasp at straws to make the Gobert deal work. They will have further depleted our assets for the future (picks and young talent) before Connelly is either fired or pulls his head/ego out of his ass realizes that the Gobert deal will never work as the vast majority of NBA observers said when the deal was made.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. You build around Ant. His age and style of play don't align well with Rudy. However, his age and style do align well with guys like McDaniels, Nowell, JMac, Knight and Naz as well as Towns. I'm not suggesting I wouldn't eventually trade any of those guys, including KAT. But you keep those guys (along with Anderson) for now because they can fit well with KAT. You trade Gobert while he's still has some decent value because he doesn't fit well. And you start incorporating Moore into the rotation instead of Forbes, Matt Ryan or Rivers.

I agree with you guys (as well as most here and with Jon K's article in the Athletic this morning) that this team needs to build around Ant. And the silver lining of KAT's injury is that it has forced Ant to become the team leader, and he has stepped up big time...28.5/8/5.6 his last 10 with 2.5 steals. Q and I commented in another thread maybe 10 days ago that Ant was not performing like a top 25 player, but I think he certainly is playing like one now. Unfortunately, Lip's comment that Ant and Rudy haven't jived is supported by nba.com's 2-man lineup data, as they have a net rating of -2.4 together. (As an aside, the 2-man data is why I find it imperative that the Wolves move DLo at the trade deadline, as he has a negative net rating with every key player on our roster this season).

But here's why I'm still on board with the Gobert trade and why I think he and Ant can still thrive. One of the reasons I thought Ant was the clear #1 pick in the draft was I saw him as a bigger version of Donovan Mitchell...several articles I read about Ant made the same comparison. Both struggled a bit with their shot in college, but experts thought their mechanics combined with their extraordinary ability to finish around the basket would lead to them becoming prolific efficient scorers. And sure enough, Ant's 3rd year stats are nearly identical to Mitchell's (even though Ant is 2 years younger in his third year). So how well did Mitchell and Rudy gel together? Well, together they had a superb positive net rating of 7.4 last season, and Utah was successful. Ant and Rudy should be able to thrive together, and that's why I continue to preach patience with the trade. Get KAT, JMac and Prince back and make the right moves at the trade deadline, and this team will be more than fine.

I'd have to look at Ant's numbers for the past 20 games and see how they stack up against the rest of the NBA. Believe it or not, I'm not sure it's truly Top 25. That's not because Ant isn't playing well. It's because there is SO much talent right now in the NBA. I'll check it out...

Q-was-here wrote:I'd have to look at Ant's numbers for the past 20 games and see how they stack up against the rest of the NBA. Believe it or not, I'm not sure it's truly Top 25. That's not because Ant isn't playing well. It's because there is SO much talent right now in the NBA. I'll check it out...

The past 10 is pretty damn impressive. We'll have to see if it's sustainable.

"He is averaging 28.1 points, 8.0 rebounds, 5.6 assists, 1.5 steals and is shooting 54.7 percent from the field and 37.8 from 3-point range over the last 10 games."