Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:D'Angelo Russell is making $30M this year and $31M next year. Based on the current salary cap, no, he is not technically worth those figures annually. However, how much is he worth? $20-25M annually seems entirely fair to me given the scarcity of his player type and production. That makes him a slight overpay, but it's insignificant in reality. With how he was discussed last year and leading into this year you'd think he was worth half of that. The vitriol some aimed his way was over the top.

I'm glad the narrative around D-Lo has started to change. He's always been a highly-skilled and productive player in my book, but we're getting better effort defensively and he's cohering with the Wolves other stars seamlessly. The result has been perhaps the most exciting season of Minnesota basketball since Kevin Garnett left and he's been one of the main contributors to that. I'm also optimistic that the Wolves will be able to extend him -- perhaps as early as this off-season depending on his agency's demands. There should be mutual interest in getting that deal done.

You and I discussed this last week. And we seem to agree on what he should get.

But do we really see an NBA player in his prime willing to take a pay cut? I find it highly unlikely...

D'Angelo Russell's extension will certainly be an interesting storyline for this franchise, especially after what might be their best season in almost two decades. I think the key is to present his camp with an initial offer that actually values him as a player. I don't think lowballing him is something that we could come back from in negotiations. Contrary to popular belief, he would have a number of suitors on the free market. Minnesota would be foolish to allow him to get there, in my opinion.

He's not coming off an All-Star nomination as a 22-year old. Some of that perceived potential is depleted. There's the durability issues. There's a potential super-max coming for Karl-Anthony Towns. There's a future max contract coming for Anthony Edwards. All of this has to be taken into consideration, but I don't think you can allow Russell to walk without a better option lined up and I don't see one of those available anytime soon. Pay the man and keep building this group.

thedoper wrote:Just for fun, PGs in DLo's salary zone:

Kemba 34mil
Jrue 32 mil
Chris Paul 30 mil
Fox 28 mil
Lowry 26 mil
Brogdon 21mil
Conley 21mil
VanVleet 20mil

There are other PGs that could contribute at a high level for similar or less money than DLo, but the options are limited. I doubt any of them want to sign with the Wolves. I would go a bit further than Cam and say that if we can lock in Dlo for 25 mil per, that is a good to great deal based on what our prospects would be.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I think it was about a week ago that I said four-years, $90-million would be a good deal with some wiggle room for more depending on how the rest of this season goes. Let's say they got him locked up for four years and $100-million this summer. That's a win.

A max contract for him given his service time would start at just under $36-million a year. That's obviously not nearly as favorable moving forward. I would love to hear the argument from his agency on why he should rate that, but I'm also hoping they have more realistic expectations.

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:Just for fun, PGs in DLo's salary zone:

Kemba 34mil
Jrue 32 mil
Chris Paul 30 mil
Fox 28 mil
Lowry 26 mil
Brogdon 21mil
Conley 21mil
VanVleet 20mil

There are other PGs that could contribute at a high level for similar or less money than DLo, but the options are limited. I doubt any of them want to sign with the Wolves. I would go a bit further than Cam and say that if we can lock in Dlo for 25 mil per, that is a good to great deal based on what our prospects would be.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I think it was about a week ago that I said four-years, $90-million would be a good deal with some wiggle room for more depending on how the rest of this season goes. Let's say they got him locked up for four years and $100-million this summer. That's a win.

A max contract for him given his service time would start at just under $36-million a year. That's obviously not nearly as favorable moving forward. I would love to hear the argument from his agency on why he should rate that, but I'm also hoping they have more realistic expectations.

"De'Aron Fox is making $33M, $35M and $37M over the next three years. And you expect D. Russell to take a PAYCUT after he led the Timberwolves to only their 2nd winning season in 18 seasons?!?! You seriously expect us to believe that you traded for him at $30M/yr along with a lottery pick and now expect him to make less money after PROVING he's critical to your team's success? Go F yourself. My client is in his prime and wants a contract that starts at $3xM annually with escalators or you can go kick rocks for another 18 years."

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:Just for fun, PGs in DLo's salary zone:

Kemba 34mil
Jrue 32 mil
Chris Paul 30 mil
Fox 28 mil
Lowry 26 mil
Brogdon 21mil
Conley 21mil
VanVleet 20mil

There are other PGs that could contribute at a high level for similar or less money than DLo, but the options are limited. I doubt any of them want to sign with the Wolves. I would go a bit further than Cam and say that if we can lock in Dlo for 25 mil per, that is a good to great deal based on what our prospects would be.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I think it was about a week ago that I said four-years, $90-million would be a good deal with some wiggle room for more depending on how the rest of this season goes. Let's say they got him locked up for four years and $100-million this summer. That's a win.

A max contract for him given his service time would start at just under $36-million a year. That's obviously not nearly as favorable moving forward. I would love to hear the argument from his agency on why he should rate that, but I'm also hoping they have more realistic expectations.

"De'Aron Fox is making $33M, $35M and $37M over the next three years. And you expect D. Russell to take a PAYCUT after he led the Timberwolves to only their 2nd winning season in 18 seasons?!?! You seriously expect us to believe that you traded for him at $30M/yr along with a lottery pick and now expect him to make less money after PROVING he's critical to your team's success? Go F yourself. My client is in his prime and wants a contract that starts at $33M annually with escalators or you can go kick rocks for another 18 years."

We love what D'Angelo Russell brings to the team -- his scoring ability and willingness to facilitate. We admire his leadership. D-Lo is someone we value very highly. Glen Taylor, Alex Rodriguez, Marc Lore, and myself would love to offer your client a four-year, $100-million deal. We feel that this accurately represents your client's value to our team, the fans, and the city of Minneapolis. We believe that he's a near-perfect fit alongside Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the present and the future. We feel that he can help this team not only make the playoffs, but win a playoff series and contend in the Western Conference for years to come.

With that said, we have worries about your client's durability -- specifically his lower body injuries that have caused him to play in just 103 of 149 (69%) possible games since we acquired him from Golden State. Our medical staff is prepared to help Russell manage his lower body injuries and we feel confident we can keep him available in the future, but as an organization we have to protect ourselves and our investments. Furthermore, we feel that it's important to not only retain your client, but to also field a competitive team around him. That includes re-signing Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the near future as well as making necessary additions to help bolster this roster as it continues to ascend in the NBA.

We value loyalty, family, and a commitment to winning. We feel your client is an embodiment of all three. We hope you seriously consider our offer and look forward to announcing our new deal.

That's the pitch. And in terms of De'Aaron Fox, he was 23-years old, coming off of a 25-point, 7-assist per game season on above average efficiency for his position. He was also signed with the intent of being THE franchise cornerstone. Minnesota is not asking D'Angelo Russell to be that as they currently have Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards waiting in the wing. The circumstances are so different that it's an unfair comparison, but one that would definitely come from an agent looking to maximize his client's earnings and therefore his own.

Ultimately, what does Russell want? Does he want to remain in Minnesota? Is he happy with his role? Does he value playing with a close friend in Towns? Does he enjoy playing for the current coaching staff? All of these factors will play some part in his extension along with the monetary value.

I love Cam and Abe negotiating. Keep it going guys.

thedoper wrote:Just for fun, PGs in DLo's salary zone:

Kemba 34mil
Jrue 32 mil
Chris Paul 30 mil
Fox 28 mil
Lowry 26 mil
Brogdon 21mil
Conley 21mil
VanVleet 20mil

There are other PGs that could contribute at a high level for similar or less money than DLo, but the options are limited. I doubt any of them want to sign with the Wolves. I would go a bit further than Cam and say that if we can lock in Dlo for 25 mil per, that is a good to great deal based on what our prospects would be.

Kemba was on an old max contract that when he signed it he absolutely deserved it.

Chris Paul might have been able to demand more many money than he got but he took a good chunk of money and guaranteed money instead.

I was actually a bit surprised I thought Lowry might get a bit more last offseason. His age keeps his value down otherwise he is a really good 2 way player.

Brogdon market value is likely worth more than his contract and is FVV.

There are some interesting names and co tracts to look at. The question is what is Russell going to be looking for? Maximizing his compensation? Getting a nice salary and getting guaranteed money? Does he want to be the next Dennis Schroeder that turned down a pretty nice amount of money and then end up having to take much less? What will a guy like Colin Sexton get this offseason? There was a report than he and the Cavs were looking at a deal for at least 20 million a year before he go hurt.

I think one thing that could help the Wolves is if they look to maybe start Russell at a higher salary and then have it go down. Getting the money earlier means you can put that money to work and for a team it means less money later when they will be paying Edwards and Towns a boatload of cash (and maybe having to pay some other players too). I think Russell seems smart enough to see some of the financial benefits of some of the ways teams could get creative in paying out a non-max deal.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:Just for fun, PGs in DLo's salary zone:

Kemba 34mil
Jrue 32 mil
Chris Paul 30 mil
Fox 28 mil
Lowry 26 mil
Brogdon 21mil
Conley 21mil
VanVleet 20mil

There are other PGs that could contribute at a high level for similar or less money than DLo, but the options are limited. I doubt any of them want to sign with the Wolves. I would go a bit further than Cam and say that if we can lock in Dlo for 25 mil per, that is a good to great deal based on what our prospects would be.

Yeah, I'd be fine with that. I think it was about a week ago that I said four-years, $90-million would be a good deal with some wiggle room for more depending on how the rest of this season goes. Let's say they got him locked up for four years and $100-million this summer. That's a win.

A max contract for him given his service time would start at just under $36-million a year. That's obviously not nearly as favorable moving forward. I would love to hear the argument from his agency on why he should rate that, but I'm also hoping they have more realistic expectations.

"De'Aron Fox is making $33M, $35M and $37M over the next three years. And you expect D. Russell to take a PAYCUT after he led the Timberwolves to only their 2nd winning season in 18 seasons?!?! You seriously expect us to believe that you traded for him at $30M/yr along with a lottery pick and now expect him to make less money after PROVING he's critical to your team's success? Go F yourself. My client is in his prime and wants a contract that starts at $33M annually with escalators or you can go kick rocks for another 18 years."

We love what D'Angelo Russell brings to the team -- his scoring ability and willingness to facilitate. We admire his leadership. D-Lo is someone we value very highly. Glen Taylor, Alex Rodriguez, Marc Lore, and myself would love to offer your client a four-year, $100-million deal. We feel that this accurately represents your client's value to our team, the fans, and the city of Minneapolis. We believe that he's a near-perfect fit alongside Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the present and the future. We feel that he can help this team not only make the playoffs, but win a playoff series and contend in the Western Conference for years to come.

With that said, we have worries about your client's durability -- specifically his lower body injuries that have caused him to play in just 103 of 149 (69%) possible games since we acquired him from Golden State. Our medical staff is prepared to help Russell manage his lower body injuries and we feel confident we can keep him available in the future, but as an organization we have to protect ourselves and our investments. Furthermore, we feel that it's important to not only retain your client, but to also field a competitive team around him. That includes re-signing Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the near future as well as making necessary additions to help bolster this roster as it continues to ascend in the NBA.

We value loyalty, family, and a commitment to winning. We feel your client is an embodiment of all three. We hope you seriously consider our offer and look forward to announcing our new deal.

That's the pitch. And in terms of De'Aaron Fox, he was 23-years old, coming off of a 25-point, 7-assist per game season on above average efficiency for his position. He was also signed with the intent of being THE franchise cornerstone. Minnesota is not asking D'Angelo Russell to be that as they currently have Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards waiting in the wing. The circumstances are so different that it's an unfair comparison, but one that would definitely come from an agent looking to maximize his client's earnings and therefore his own.

Ultimately, what does Russell want? Does he want to remain in Minnesota? Is he happy with his role? Does he value playing with a close friend in Towns? Does he enjoy playing for the current coaching staff? All of these factors will play some part in his extension along with the monetary value.

Cam - I think that's a great pitch and a fair offer at 4 years/$100M. I think DLO is tired of moving around after getting moved from one team to another early in his career. He and KAT are clearly close friends. And there's no doubt he really likes playing for Finch. One other thing about DLO. He's really smart and I'm not just talking about his high basketball IQ. He seems like a really sharp guy. In that sense, I think he's smart enough to put things in proper perspective and see the value in rich in a place he's comfortable over the value of simply being a little more rich somewhere else. Finally, I don't know that any other team would offer more than 4 years/$100 million. His injury propensity is a real thing. And a lot of teams have moved on from him. Moreover, he won't fit with a lot of other teams as well as he fits here. So if the Wolves want to keep DLO - and there's good reason to keep him -- I think your pitch and proposal would get it done.

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:

"De'Aron Fox is making $33M, $35M and $37M over the next three years. And you expect D. Russell to take a PAYCUT after he led the Timberwolves to only their 2nd winning season in 18 seasons?!?! You seriously expect us to believe that you traded for him at $30M/yr along with a lottery pick and now expect him to make less money after PROVING he's critical to your team's success? Go F yourself. My client is in his prime and wants a contract that starts at $33M annually with escalators or you can go kick rocks for another 18 years."

We love what D'Angelo Russell brings to the team -- his scoring ability and willingness to facilitate. We admire his leadership. D-Lo is someone we value very highly. Glen Taylor, Alex Rodriguez, Marc Lore, and myself would love to offer your client a four-year, $100-million deal. We feel that this accurately represents your client's value to our team, the fans, and the city of Minneapolis. We believe that he's a near-perfect fit alongside Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the present and the future. We feel that he can help this team not only make the playoffs, but win a playoff series and contend in the Western Conference for years to come.

With that said, we have worries about your client's durability -- specifically his lower body injuries that have caused him to play in just 103 of 149 (69%) possible games since we acquired him from Golden State. Our medical staff is prepared to help Russell manage his lower body injuries and we feel confident we can keep him available in the future, but as an organization we have to protect ourselves and our investments. Furthermore, we feel that it's important to not only retain your client, but to also field a competitive team around him. That includes re-signing Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the near future as well as making necessary additions to help bolster this roster as it continues to ascend in the NBA.

We value loyalty, family, and a commitment to winning. We feel your client is an embodiment of all three. We hope you seriously consider our offer and look forward to announcing our new deal.

So is this 20+% salary cut your final offer? We're disappointed that you haven't noticed that the Timberwolves are 29 - 20 when D'Angelo plays this season... but 5 - 9 when he sits. We're disappointed that you didn't mention the Wolves are 43 - 30 (.589) with D'Angelo on the court with Towns the past 2+ seasons, but hovering around .300 without our client.

We're disappointed that despite 75+ years of evidence that players' peak performance (and championship windows) usually happen when they reach 27 years old... you're expecting our 25-year-old client to take a 20+% pay cut from what he has been making even as teams finances are rebounding and salary caps rising.

Just let us know if negotiations will begin in earnest... so we'll know whether we need to begin doing so with other organizations. We too believe in family. And that's why as a head of this family, we believe our client deserves a larger slice of that meatloaf sitting on the table.

Abe you can be my manager any day.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Camden wrote:

thedoper wrote:

"De'Aron Fox is making $33M, $35M and $37M over the next three years. And you expect D. Russell to take a PAYCUT after he led the Timberwolves to only their 2nd winning season in 18 seasons?!?! You seriously expect us to believe that you traded for him at $30M/yr along with a lottery pick and now expect him to make less money after PROVING he's critical to your team's success? Go F yourself. My client is in his prime and wants a contract that starts at $33M annually with escalators or you can go kick rocks for another 18 years."

We love what D'Angelo Russell brings to the team -- his scoring ability and willingness to facilitate. We admire his leadership. D-Lo is someone we value very highly. Glen Taylor, Alex Rodriguez, Marc Lore, and myself would love to offer your client a four-year, $100-million deal. We feel that this accurately represents your client's value to our team, the fans, and the city of Minneapolis. We believe that he's a near-perfect fit alongside Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the present and the future. We feel that he can help this team not only make the playoffs, but win a playoff series and contend in the Western Conference for years to come.

With that said, we have worries about your client's durability -- specifically his lower body injuries that have caused him to play in just 103 of 149 (69%) possible games since we acquired him from Golden State. Our medical staff is prepared to help Russell manage his lower body injuries and we feel confident we can keep him available in the future, but as an organization we have to protect ourselves and our investments. Furthermore, we feel that it's important to not only retain your client, but to also field a competitive team around him. That includes re-signing Karl-Anthony Towns and Anthony Edwards in the near future as well as making necessary additions to help bolster this roster as it continues to ascend in the NBA.

We value loyalty, family, and a commitment to winning. We feel your client is an embodiment of all three. We hope you seriously consider our offer and look forward to announcing our new deal.

So is this 20+% salary cut your final offer? We're disappointed that you haven't noticed that the Timberwolves are 29 - 20 when D'Angelo plays this season... but 5 - 9 when he sits. We're disappointed that you didn't mention the Wolves are 43 - 30 (.589) with D'Angelo on the court with Towns the past 2+ seasons, but hovering around .300 without our client.

We're disappointed that despite 75+ years of evidence that players' peak performance (and championship windows) usually happen when they reach 27 years old... you're expecting our 25-year-old client to take a 20+% pay cut from what he has been making even as teams finances are rebounding and salary caps rising.

Just let us know if negotiations will begin in earnest... so we'll know whether we need to begin doing so with other organizations. We too believe in family. And that's why as a head of this family, we believe our client deserves a larger slice of that meatloaf sitting on the table.

And if attendance is any interest to you, Marc and ARod, the Wolves are 16-6 at home when DLo plays and 3-6 when he doesn't.

Salary negotiations involve 2 aspects for NBA players...money, and pride...and the latter is often more important, because with any kind of discipline at all, money is not an issue for these guys. And I can't see DLo's pride allowing him to take a pay cut after what is unquestionably his finest season. So he makes a max salary as a guy with arguably mediocre advanced stats (some may argue against that, but many of his advanced stats prior to this season are average for the association or even below average). We expect him to be happy taking a pay cut now that his stats are vastly better than they have ever been before? Not likely. The Wolves' best chance of retaining KAT, DLo and Ant at the price tag they demand is if the new owners are willing to go deep into luxury tax land. We'll have to see if they have any appetite for that.