Why I liked the Wolves Draft

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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Watching the Suns take the 2nd seed in the West and now going toe to toe with the Lakers after being one of the worst teams in the league just two seasons ago has been impressive.

While Chris Paul's addition has been huge, let's not forget the improvement of Mikal Bridges into an elite role player. These types of players are CRITICAL to winning basketball. Devin Booker has been playing at a high level since his second season, averaging 20+ PPG, but it wasn't until Mikal Bridges and DeAndre Ayton's 2nd season that things started to really turn around.

I bring this up because I'm really hoping the draft that brought us Jaden McDaniels and Anthony Edwards provide to the Wolves what Bridges and Ayton (2018 draft class) did for the Suns.
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SameOldNudityDrew
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by SameOldNudityDrew »

I love Bridges. Still can't believe the Sixers traded him. He's a great player and damn Philly kid and his mom works for them!

I've got high hopes for McDaniels. Definitely potential for a longer Covington-esque defensive player who can knock down the 3. More of a shot-blocker than a steal guy like Cov, but he's also got great on-ball defensive potential. Not sure if he's the shooter Bridges is, but the length is great. I don't think he'll be a super-elite defender like Thybulle (who I think might be one of the best 3 man defenders in the league), but Thybulle can't shoot and McDaniels clearly can. Looking like a great pick.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Bridges. Still can't believe the Sixers traded him. He's a great player and damn Philly kid and his mom works for them!

I've got high hopes for McDaniels. Definitely potential for a longer Covington-esque defensive player who can knock down the 3. More of a shot-blocker than a steal guy like Cov, but he's also got great on-ball defensive potential. Not sure if he's the shooter Bridges is, but the length is great. I don't think he'll be a super-elite defender like Thybulle (who I think might be one of the best 3 man defenders in the league), but Thybulle can't shoot and McDaniels clearly can. Looking like a great pick.


Weird move at the time... and it's aged even worse since.

Zhaire Smith has played 143 minutes in the NBA. Although they also got a #1 pick in the deal that I think became Maxey. Still... for a team battling for a title RIGHT NOW... Mikal Bridges could help the 76ers a lot.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Bridges. Still can't believe the Sixers traded him. He's a great player and damn Philly kid and his mom works for them!

I've got high hopes for McDaniels. Definitely potential for a longer Covington-esque defensive player who can knock down the 3. More of a shot-blocker than a steal guy like Cov, but he's also got great on-ball defensive potential. Not sure if he's the shooter Bridges is, but the length is great. I don't think he'll be a super-elite defender like Thybulle (who I think might be one of the best 3 man defenders in the league), but Thybulle can't shoot and McDaniels clearly can. Looking like a great pick.


I think McDaniels's development and improvement is almost as consequential to this franchise's future success as Edwards. Elite wing defenders that can make 3's are ridiculously valuable. And I'd argue that the Wolves have had more of the conventional, high scoring "star" in its history than top notch 3&D wings.

Here is the list of all-stars (some of which are borderline to say the least):
Googs
KG
Love
Cassell
Wally
Butler
KAT
DLO

Here is the list of elite 3&D wings:
Covington

30 years in existence and we have one freakin' player to show for it in this category and he wasn't anyone we even drafted.

When the book is written someday on the sorry state of the Wolves first 30 seasons, this has to be one of the main chapters.
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AbeVigodaLive
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by AbeVigodaLive »

Q12543 wrote:
SameOldNudityDrew wrote:I love Bridges. Still can't believe the Sixers traded him. He's a great player and damn Philly kid and his mom works for them!

I've got high hopes for McDaniels. Definitely potential for a longer Covington-esque defensive player who can knock down the 3. More of a shot-blocker than a steal guy like Cov, but he's also got great on-ball defensive potential. Not sure if he's the shooter Bridges is, but the length is great. I don't think he'll be a super-elite defender like Thybulle (who I think might be one of the best 3 man defenders in the league), but Thybulle can't shoot and McDaniels clearly can. Looking like a great pick.


I think McDaniels's development and improvement is almost as consequential to this franchise's future success as Edwards. Elite wing defenders that can make 3's are ridiculously valuable. And I'd argue that the Wolves have had more of the conventional, high scoring "star" in its history than top notch 3&D wings.

Here is the list of all-stars (some of which are borderline to say the least):
Googs
KG
Love
Cassell
Wally
Butler
KAT
DLO

Here is the list of elite 3&D wings:
Covington

30 years in existence and we have one freakin' player to show for it in this category and he wasn't anyone we even drafted.

When the book is written someday on the sorry state of the Wolves first 30 seasons, this has to be one of the main chapters.



How dare Q besmirch the legacy of Anthony Peeler!



[Note: Ok... BUT... it's not really fair to rip the Wolves for not having an elite 3-and-D wing for the first 20 or so years... before it was actually a thing.]
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Abe, Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier were playing this very role over 10 years ago. Those guys' ability to stretch the floor and defend made them super critical to their teams. So the role existed, but the sheer volume of 3's taken was a lot less.

I guess the main point is even if you shrink the timeline down a bit, the fact we have only had one of these players in the last X years is pretty incredible. And Covington basically had a cup of coffee with us.

Volume scorers and play makers are not THAT hard to find. Guys that can defend well and hit open 3's....it's a struggle.
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Monster
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Monster »

Q12543 wrote:Abe, Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier were playing this very role over 10 years ago. Those guys' ability to stretch the floor and defend made them super critical to their teams. So the role existed, but the sheer volume of 3's taken was a lot less.

I guess the main point is even if you shrink the timeline down a bit, the fact we have only had one of these players in the last X years is pretty incredible. And Covington basically had a cup of coffee with us.

Volume scorers and play makers are not THAT hard to find. Guys that can defend well and hit open 3's....it's a struggle.


Forget 3 and D...for years the Wolves couldn't even get the 3 part of that equation. Way back when the Wolves lost Hoiberg because of his heart condition that was a pretty significant loss.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

monsterpile wrote:
Q12543 wrote:Abe, Bruce Bowen and Shane Battier were playing this very role over 10 years ago. Those guys' ability to stretch the floor and defend made them super critical to their teams. So the role existed, but the sheer volume of 3's taken was a lot less.

I guess the main point is even if you shrink the timeline down a bit, the fact we have only had one of these players in the last X years is pretty incredible. And Covington basically had a cup of coffee with us.

Volume scorers and play makers are not THAT hard to find. Guys that can defend well and hit open 3's....it's a struggle.


Forget 3 and D...for years the Wolves couldn't even get the 3 part of that equation. Way back when the Wolves lost Hoiberg because of his heart condition that was a pretty significant loss.


Ha, good point Monster. The team has had a chronic shortage of both defense and 3-point shooting for most years, not to mention the revolutionary concept (to this franchise) of having a guy that can actually do both well.
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SameOldNudityDrew
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

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Your point about quality role players is a great one Q.

Thinking of Covington, what also made him valuable was his contract. I remember arguing against trading him away specifically because he played a key role for us, and maybe even more importantly, because his value related to his contract was so great. I remember specifically saying it would be way tougher to replace a guy like that than a guy like Wiggins.

Every team needs stars, and after their rookie contracts, stars cost a ton of money. A lot of the time, that's worth it. You don't win without stars. But not all stars end up worth those big contracts, especially later in their careers. Even though DLO isn't there yet, I'd argue he's not worth the contract he's paid. A good role player whose on-court value is equivalent to or higher than his contract can be more valuable than an overpaid star, depending on the circumstances.

I'm not sure if role players are more likely than stars to be worth their contracts. That's a good question, actually. My guess is that it's probably about the same, but that the risk/reward is higher with stars because their contracts are so much bigger.

One type of contract that is often really valuable though is a rookie contract. There's some risk there as well if you draft a bust at the top of the draft, because then you're paying 9 million a year to a guy who stinks. But that's not as much risk as with a contract for a star. And I know it usually takes guys a year or so before they can really contribute. But a good rookie, especially a star, locked in for 4 years with the team having a huge advantage in re-signing the player is probably the best contract you can get, unless you're talking about a max contract for a guy like Curry, Durant, Jokic, etc. The value on the court and the value of the contract as a potentially tradable asset itself are just so much higher than the negative of the salary cap hit. I mean, think of what the Mavs could potentially put around Luka or the Pelicans around Zion if they played their cards right really soon.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Why I liked the Wolves Draft

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Yeah, it's funny how after we traded Covington and then heading into this season looking at our roster, the thing that stood out most as a need was a player just like......Robert Covington! Luckily McDaniels emerged, and while he's not Robert Covington yet, he absolutely has a ceiling that could be an even better version of RoCo..

I think every team HAS to have at least a couple of high usage scorer types that can get buckets and carry the load offensively. Their real value relative to their contract value is almost entirely tied to how efficient they are. A highly inefficient volume scorer is way less valuable than a highly efficient volume scorer. Brooklyn is one of the favorites to win a title because their three highest scorers all have a TS% above .600.

Once a team gets those two or three scorer/play makers, now the focus needs to shift to surrounding them with the right role players, the right coaches, and the right schemes. We have KAT, DLO, and Ant. All three of these guys are capable of carrying an offense to some degree, albeit not at the elite efficiency level we see from Brooklyn's Big Three.

In my opinion, we need a top notch dirty-work oriented big to put next to KAT, at least to start halves. There are options out there for this kind of player.

Then we need an elite 3&D starting SF (McDaniels?) and another wing that can come off the bench and provide more of the same (3s and defense). You can't have a Josh Okogie that is completely useless from beyond the arc.

Those two roles - a starting big and a bench wing that can defend and hit 3s - need to be the focus this offseason IMO.
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