Minnesota Sports Forum

I like Murray, but I would not give up 3 future 1st's and DLo to get him. Even if the picks were lottery protected I would be hesitant.

If we can guarantee our pick ends up in the 20's every year, I'd make the deal for Murray. But there is always that chance where David Robinson misses the year and you end up with a Tim Duncan type to cement a dynasty. I'd rather make a trade for John Collins and then sign Tyus.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:If we can guarantee our pick ends up in the 20's every year, I'd make the deal for Murray. But there is always that chance where David Robinson misses the year and you end up with a Tim Duncan type to cement a dynasty. I'd rather make a trade for John Collins and then sign Tyus.

That's my thinking too, Cool. Giving up three picks in the 20s over the next 8 years for Murray would probably be a good move if not for the risk you identified. Imagine how deflating it would be to finish in the lottery because of a rash if injuries and see a top 5 pick go to a conference rival. I think Murray would be a great fit here, but I just can't get comfortable with the risk of giving up three future unprotected 1st-round picks.

lipoli390 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:If we can guarantee our pick ends up in the 20's every year, I'd make the deal for Murray. But there is always that chance where David Robinson misses the year and you end up with a Tim Duncan type to cement a dynasty. I'd rather make a trade for John Collins and then sign Tyus.

That's my thinking too, Cool. Giving up three picks in the 20s over the next 8 years for Murray would probably be a good move if not for the risk you identified. Imagine how deflating it would be to finish in the lottery because of a rash if injuries and see a top 5 pick go to a conference rival. I think Murray would be a great fit here, but I just can't get comfortable with the risk of giving up three future unprotected 1st-round picks.

If Spurs go full rebuild they will likely have to ease up on their demands. He's a bit like SGA in that he's a star in his prime on a tanking team. OKC just sat SGA for long stretches, but not sure that is the Spurs way. I don't blame Spurs for their high demands. I would have preferred that the Wolves would have drafted a promising point guard, but for whatever reason they didn't do that. It looks like we are stuck with DLO for another year.

Knicks are likely to sign Brunson as they just cleared a bunch more capspace. If so, maybe Dallas would consider DLO.

I constructed a three way trade that works in the trade machine. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29us5g24

Wolves get Murray, Poeltl and McDermott and swap out DLO, Pat Bev, Bolmaro and one of their rookies (Kessler or Moore) along with a top 3 protected FRP in 2024 and a top 10 protected pick in 2026.
Dallas gives up a FRP with top 10 protection to get DLO and Pat Bev and this FRP gets routed to the Spurs. They also get to dump Bertans contract onto the Spurs.
Spurs get two FRPs from Wolves, a FRP from Dallas and one of Kessler or Moore, plus Bolmaro and filler. Wolves can replace Kessler with Poeltl.
This might be good enough to pull off a Murray deal, but I might be reluctant to go further.

Hollinger's analysis says this trade improves the Wolves by 13 games and worsens the Spurs by 13 games, both desired outcomes.

KG4Ever wrote:Knicks are likely to sign Brunson as they just cleared a bunch more capspace. If so, maybe Dallas would consider DLO.

I constructed a three way trade that works in the trade machine. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29us5g24

Wolves get Murray, Poeltl and McDermott and swap out DLO, Pat Bev, Bolmaro and one of their rookies (Kessler or Moore) along with a top 3 protected FRP in 2024 and a top 10 protected pick in 2026.
Dallas gives up a FRP with top 10 protection to get DLO and Pat Bev and this FRP gets routed to the Spurs. They also get to dump Bertans contract onto the Spurs.
Spurs get two FRPs from Wolves, a FRP from Dallas and one of Kessler or Moore, plus Bolmaro and filler. Wolves can replace Kessler with Poeltl.
This might be good enough to pull off a Murray deal, but I might be reluctant to go further.

Hollinger's analysis says this trade improves the Wolves by 13 games and worsens the Spurs by 13 games, both desired outcomes.

It still says "Hollinger's Analysis"? Wow. I think Charly Steiner, Jack Edwards , Mike Lee, and Paul Maguire were still there when Hollinger left. Keep in mind, that number is just "PER for" and does not weigh it with "PER against". If you ever have trouble with bugs or inaccuracies, RealGM does a good job.

JasonIsDaMan wrote:

KG4Ever wrote:Knicks are likely to sign Brunson as they just cleared a bunch more capspace. If so, maybe Dallas would consider DLO.

I constructed a three way trade that works in the trade machine. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29us5g24

Wolves get Murray, Poeltl and McDermott and swap out DLO, Pat Bev, Bolmaro and one of their rookies (Kessler or Moore) along with a top 3 protected FRP in 2024 and a top 10 protected pick in 2026.
Dallas gives up a FRP with top 10 protection to get DLO and Pat Bev and this FRP gets routed to the Spurs. They also get to dump Bertans contract onto the Spurs.
Spurs get two FRPs from Wolves, a FRP from Dallas and one of Kessler or Moore, plus Bolmaro and filler. Wolves can replace Kessler with Poeltl.
This might be good enough to pull off a Murray deal, but I might be reluctant to go further.

Hollinger's analysis says this trade improves the Wolves by 13 games and worsens the Spurs by 13 games, both desired outcomes.

It still says "Hollinger's Analysis"? Wow. I think Charly Steiner, Jack Edwards , Mike Lee, and Paul Maguire were still there when Hollinger left. Keep in mind, that number is just "PER for" and does not weigh it with "PER against". If you ever have trouble with bugs or inaccuracies, RealGM does a good job.

I don't put much stock in the Hollinger's analysis but I've seen others refer to it in their trade proposals. I'd be excited to see what a core of Ant, Kat and Murray can do while supplemented by a team of good role players. I just don't know who else we could add to Ant and KAT that is as young as Murray that would give us a top notch core thru the rest of the 2020s.

If we are taking about 3 first round picks and assets for Murray we may as well call up and see who else is available. That's a lot and I like Murray but I'm just not convinced he is that good and he has injury history. I will say the idea that adding him and he has a lower salary so the Wolves could still have a shot at a max guy or even just a significant chunk of money is a compelling point.

I am not in favor of trading Dlo and 3 first for Murray but I am intrigued with the thought of adding Murray. I like both players but Murray is the better player. Murray is a better fit to both KAT and Ant, he is the type of pg that will make the players around him better and he is signed to a better contract.

This got me thinking of ways to add Murray while not giving up that much assets. Here are some thoughts

Reportedly, the hawks offer Gallo's expiring and 3 1st. Maybe we can offer Beasley(team option and a better player than Gallo now) and Naz(useful player with an expiring)+ 3 first ( There should be some protection over the picks) for Murray.

Then, we look to deal DLO to either the knicks/mavericks based on what team Brunson goes to and we offer dlo for a 1st and a 2nd. I think that is gettable and we could get 2 first if we take on more salary. We can also use the remaining cap space we have to take on another contract from a tax team in exchange for a late first or a couple of 2nds. Or we could use whatever cap space we get from dealing DLO to trade for a useful big like Holmes who can help us now.

Basically, We recoup 1 or 2 1st round picks and a couple or more 2nd's.

KG4Ever wrote:Knicks are likely to sign Brunson as they just cleared a bunch more capspace. If so, maybe Dallas would consider DLO.

I constructed a three way trade that works in the trade machine. http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=29us5g24

Wolves get Murray, Poeltl and McDermott and swap out DLO, Pat Bev, Bolmaro and one of their rookies (Kessler or Moore) along with a top 3 protected FRP in 2024 and a top 10 protected pick in 2026.
Dallas gives up a FRP with top 10 protection to get DLO and Pat Bev and this FRP gets routed to the Spurs. They also get to dump Bertans contract onto the Spurs.
Spurs get two FRPs from Wolves, a FRP from Dallas and one of Kessler or Moore, plus Bolmaro and filler. Wolves can replace Kessler with Poeltl.
This might be good enough to pull off a Murray deal, but I might be reluctant to go further.

Hollinger's analysis says this trade improves the Wolves by 13 games and worsens the Spurs by 13 games, both desired outcomes.

I see a good opportunity for the Wolves using the same 2 teams that can potentially lessen the pick burden on the Wolves. Dallas is in a really tough spot if Brunson leaves with their salary cap. I think Dallas would be very open to bringing in DLO for salary cap purposes. If they can get DLO for Bertans and Hardaway Jr, it could open up better cap possibilities for them in the future while getting production just as good and likely better than they get with their outgoing players. That could/would/should be worth the draft pick burden that San Antonio requires. I would push for the 3 first round picks to come from Dallas but would expect to get 2. I'd be willing to offer a protected pick swap option on one of the pick years in which San Antonio could send the Dallas pick to Minnesota in exchange for the Wolves pick if it is higher to get Dallas to trade the 3 picks.

Wolves trade DLO and Beasley and a 1st round pick swap option in 2025 and the Knicks 2023 2nd round pick for Murray and Hardaway Jr
Mavs trade Bertans, Hardaway Jr, and 3 first round picks (25, 27, 29) for DLO and Josh Richardson
Spurs trade Murray and Josh Richardson for Bertans, Beasley, Knicks 2023 2nd round pick, Mavericks 1st rounders in 25, 27, & 29. Spurs can have the higher of Wolves & Mavs 2025 1st rounder, Wolves get other pick)

If the Mavs are iffy on the 3 picks I would substitute or offer them a 26 first that is heavily protected and that would become 2 2nds. The thing is, if Dallas has to wait for Bertans and Hardaway Jr to come off the books it will be a few years so they will likely need to use picks to move off of them at some point. One the other hand, DLO and Hardaway come off the books in one year. For the Wolves, taking on Hardaway is not insignificant but his salary is declining so that is nice. If the Wolves are all in for Dejounte Murray then cap space is probably not going to be in the cards, however so having Hardaway in a tradeable salary slot is not the worst thing. The Spurs get picks and the Knicks 2nd could be nice. Beasley would be a good deadline trade candidate to get more capital and they keep Poeltl for the same reason. I would also be fine putting Bolmaro in a Spurs jersey in this scenario as well.