Minnesota Sports Forum

Jalen Smith is in that other category of having great length and bounciness, but lacks bulk and strength (at least at this stage in his career). He's also probably a bit behind someone like Hartenstein on the development curve, having just logged 1,081 total NBA minutes (Hartenstein played 1,216 minutes just this past season).

IDK....in the absence of getting a unicorn KAT-compatible big, like a younger version of Al Horford or Paul Milsap, I kind of want to go with the proven big bodied pure Center. That could be Nurkic. It could be Hartenstein. It could be Drummond. You know what you are getting with these guys and you know what you're not getting.

Naz Reid is a great story. He gave us some real productive minutes at a good price considering we signed him as an undrafted rookie free agent. But he's just too short and topples over too much (seems to be a trend over the years with us - Dieng, KAT, Vando, Reid - lots of bigs that fall down a lot). And he lacks the foot speed to play PF.

monsterpile wrote:This could go in like 3 different threads but I'll add it here. Some posters including myself have said that trading for a front court guy that isn't that much better than what we could get in FA may not be a good use of assets. I think there is another way to look at that.

Let's say for example the Wolves trade Beasley straight up for Holmes. Ok Beasley is an asset but now the Wolves have a player in their frontcourt that's a legit rotation player at the very least. It suddenly makes that frontcourt much deeper. Now the Wolves instead of absolutely having to use the mid-level on a big they can do whatever brings the most value. Maybe that's another big. Maybe it's a combo forward. Maybe there is a super versatile guard they can sign. Maybe they can sign a guy that could even be a Russell or Beverly replacement. Maybe they sign a guy that isn't proven but has upside. Maybe they use it to absorb a player in a trade and get some sort of small draft asset. Maybe they simply have another roster spot to keep a young player they drafted. There are all sorts of ways a roster spot can be used as an asset to build a team.

Now the other issue with trading for Holmes is now the front court is crowded. Who will want to sign here with 4 good players already deserving minutes? What kind of opening in the rotation is there for other positions as well? A younger player may see this as a good spot to sign a deal and work their way into an opportunity since a few players on the roster are free agents after this year.

Ultimately this is an important offseason but it also feels like one where if the Wolves can just kinda do a solid job in FA or trade it would be a good one. They don't have to knock it put of the park although that would obviously be nice. :)

Yeah, I think signing a true Center via free agency is a reasonable path for us because we can probably snag a quality big without breaking the bank. Getting a combo forward is the tougher get. I'd love to get a better version of Prince, but it will cost money and assets (this is where Beasley comes in). But is that type of player even available? And of course we're hoping that McDaniels takes a big leap forward, which if he does, then Prince is fine as our backup combo forward with Vando taking some minutes as an energy 4/5 as well.

Point guard is a whole other question.....We will hear Tyus Jones's name thrown around quite a bit methinks.

Monster - I suspect we could sign Smith for something in the $5-7 million per year range. I don't see Indiana offering him a lot - unless they deal Myles Turner. Even then, I'm not sure. The good news is that the Wolves have different free-agent options among bigs to consider pursuing. There are good argument for signing any one of the three - Nurkic, Hartenstein or Jalen Smith. Nurkic would be the most expensive, likely requiring the full MLE, and there's a chance that might not be enough. Hartenstein or Smith would likely cost less than the full MLE.

On factors other than money, the Wolves would be a very attractive destination for any of these guys. They'd be coming here are the default starter next to all-star KAT on a young, rising team that just one 46 games and took the #2 seed to six games in the playoffs. If Jalen Smith would prefer to stay with the rebuilding Pacers, then so be it. He's not the sort of player I'd want in that case. I can certainly see Hartenstein preferring to stay with the Clippers. They're going to be a contender again with the return of Kawhi Leonard next season and then there's the Hollywood glitz that might appeal to him as well. On the other hand, he did not start any games for the Clippers last season and averaged only around 18 minutes per game, although his average went up to 23.6 minutes the last 10 games. If the Wolves sign him, it will be with the intent to have him in the starting lineup. I would think he'd find that very appealing.

Q-was-here wrote:Jalen Smith is in that other category of having great length and bounciness, but lacks bulk and strength (at least at this stage in his career). He's also probably a bit behind someone like Hartenstein on the development curve, having just logged 1,081 total NBA minutes (Hartenstein played 1,216 minutes just this past season).

IDK....in the absence of getting a unicorn KAT-compatible big, like a younger version of Al Horford or Paul Milsap, I kind of want to go with the proven big bodied pure Center. That could be Nurkic. It could be Hartenstein. It could be Drummond. You know what you are getting with these guys and you know what you're not getting.

Naz Reid is a great story. He gave us some real productive minutes at a good price considering we signed him as an undrafted rookie free agent. But he's just too short and topples over too much (seems to be a trend over the years with us - Dieng, KAT, Vando, Reid - lots of bigs that fall down a lot). And he lacks the foot speed to play PF.

I don't think Hartenstein is really in the category of big true centers. He is certainly more mobile but I don't think I would be thinking he is gonna be the big tough dude those other guys are. He would be bigger than Vanderbilt and Naz and plays bigger than either so that's still a worthy upgrade.

Other than Naz taking some step forward in being a better player my perfect world would be moving him for value this offseason and I'm a big fan of his. It just seems like he would be a better fit on another roster. I'll hate to see him go though.

Edit: Jalen Smith is different than some of the other guys because I think he has the athletic mobility to be a PF and therefore stay on the floor more against smaller lineups. He has the potential to be the guy next to Towns. I'm not saying he will be but I don't think signing some of the others guys especially the bolder big centers are the answer especially long term. Smith is really intriguing as a guy with center length who can rebound block some shots possibly hit 3's at a solid percentage and volume. The thing is the Wolves could sign him and some vet min more true center that is more proven to play against those bigger guys.

monsterpile wrote:This could go in like 3 different threads but I'll add it here. Some posters including myself have said that trading for a front court guy that isn't that much better than what we could get in FA may not be a good use of assets. I think there is another way to look at that.

Let's say for example the Wolves trade Beasley straight up for Holmes. Ok Beasley is an asset but now the Wolves have a player in their frontcourt that's a legit rotation player at the very least. It suddenly makes that frontcourt much deeper. Now the Wolves instead of absolutely having to use the mid-level on a big they can do whatever brings the most value. Maybe that's another big. Maybe it's a combo forward. Maybe there is a super versatile guard they can sign. Maybe they can sign a guy that could even be a Russell or Beverly replacement. Maybe they sign a guy that isn't proven but has upside. Maybe they use it to absorb a player in a trade and get some sort of small draft asset. Maybe they simply have another roster spot to keep a young player they drafted. There are all sorts of ways a roster spot can be used as an asset to build a team.

Now the other issue with trading for Holmes is now the front court is crowded. Who will want to sign here with 4 good players already deserving minutes? What kind of opening in the rotation is there for other positions as well? A younger player may see this as a good spot to sign a deal and work their way into an opportunity since a few players on the roster are free agents after this year.

Ultimately this is an important offseason but it also feels like one where if the Wolves can just kinda do a solid job in FA or trade it would be a good one. They don't have to knock it put of the park although that would obviously be nice. :)

Some good points, it's not really a simple process. There are many factors the team needs to consider in player acquisition.

Q-was-here wrote:

monsterpile wrote:This could go in like 3 different threads but I'll add it here. Some posters including myself have said that trading for a front court guy that isn't that much better than what we could get in FA may not be a good use of assets. I think there is another way to look at that.

Let's say for example the Wolves trade Beasley straight up for Holmes. Ok Beasley is an asset but now the Wolves have a player in their frontcourt that's a legit rotation player at the very least. It suddenly makes that frontcourt much deeper. Now the Wolves instead of absolutely having to use the mid-level on a big they can do whatever brings the most value. Maybe that's another big. Maybe it's a combo forward. Maybe there is a super versatile guard they can sign. Maybe they can sign a guy that could even be a Russell or Beverly replacement. Maybe they sign a guy that isn't proven but has upside. Maybe they use it to absorb a player in a trade and get some sort of small draft asset. Maybe they simply have another roster spot to keep a young player they drafted. There are all sorts of ways a roster spot can be used as an asset to build a team.

Now the other issue with trading for Holmes is now the front court is crowded. Who will want to sign here with 4 good players already deserving minutes? What kind of opening in the rotation is there for other positions as well? A younger player may see this as a good spot to sign a deal and work their way into an opportunity since a few players on the roster are free agents after this year.

Ultimately this is an important offseason but it also feels like one where if the Wolves can just kinda do a solid job in FA or trade it would be a good one. They don't have to knock it put of the park although that would obviously be nice. :)

Yeah, I think signing a true Center via free agency is a reasonable path for us because we can probably snag a quality big without breaking the bank. Getting a combo forward is the tougher get. I'd love to get a better version of Prince, but it will cost money and assets (this is where Beasley comes in). But is that type of player even available? And of course we're hoping that McDaniels takes a big leap forward, which if he does, then Prince is fine as our backup combo forward with Vando taking some minutes as an energy 4/5 as well.

Point guard is a whole other question.....We will hear Tyus Jones's name thrown around quite a bit methinks.

True centers seem like they help more in the regular season, come playoff time a true center type like Drummond can be exposed in most series. I think the answer is to find a capable rim protector and rebounder that can use length to make things difficult and not get completely burned when switching.

For those reasons I actually like the chance J. Smith can grow into a nice complement to KAT. A vet FA that might fill that is maybe J. McGee. To your point though there are series where Drummond or Nurkic might square up with Embiid or Valan?i?nas and be very valuable.

The Joker might be an even better example.

I'm seeing some productive discussion here about Minnesota's options in the frontcourt. I do think it's worth mentioning here that every option that's been brought up has varying levels of risk involved. Myles Turner has cost, durability, and team fit issues. Jalen Smith is fairly unproven, albeit intriguing, and still coming into his own as a young player. He's not necessarily a guaranteed upgrade over the incumbent starter in Jarred Vanderbilt. Richaun Holmes is far from ideal for any number of reasons, although he would theoretically represent an upgrade due to his size and finesse around the hoop. Wendell Carter Jr. and Jakob Poeltl both make a lot of sense, but the cost to acquire will almost certainly be too rich for the Wolves. Would Minnesota really risk giving up multiple firsts for them?

I guess that leads me back to a preferred option of mine: Jonathan Isaac. I'm aware of the durability concerns, and they're plenty fair. He's played in just 136 of Orlando's 391 regular-season games since they drafted him in 2017. He hasn't played a game since August 2, 2020. He endured a torn ACL almost two years ago as well as a minor hamstring surgery this past March. That presents moderate risk for any team looking to acquire him. However, I also think that's why the former sixth-overall pick would even be available. Had Isaac remained healthy I think he'd be considered a significant building block in a comparable way to Jaren Jackson Jr. Add to that the Magic winning the draft lottery in a year that is saturated with talented bigs at the top and there's a very real scenario where Isaac will be gettable at a price that would be more than fair for his talent level.

And since we're talking about risk, we also have to talk about reward. Out of all of the names we've mentioned here, Isaac clearly presents the highest ceiling, in my opinion. He's essentially the archetype of the ideal big to pair next to Karl-Anthony Towns with his size, length, mobility, motor, defensive prowess, offensive respectability, and overall versatility. Not to mention, his skill set should play during the regular season and post-season-- versus acquiring a big that can be schemed out of a series. See: Steven Adams and others.

I think cost to acquire Isaac will be reasonable. I think it's possible that the worst of his injury troubles are behind him. I think he'd be a fantastic fit with the current pieces. And if for some reason it doesn't work out, his contract has built-in safety nets in terms of guaranteed money due to his inability to log the requisite amount of games played the last couple of seasons. He's just a very attractive buy-low candidate for a plethora of reasons.

Camden wrote:I'm seeing some productive discussion here about Minnesota's options in the frontcourt. I do think it's worth mentioning here that every option that's been brought up has varying levels of risk involved. Myles Turner has cost, durability, and team fit issues. Jalen Smith is fairly unproven, albeit intriguing, and still coming into his own as a young player. He's not necessarily a guaranteed upgrade over the incumbent starter in Jarred Vanderbilt. Richaun Holmes is far from ideal for any number of reasons, although he would theoretically represent an upgrade due to his size and finesse around the hoop. Wendell Carter Jr. and Jakob Poeltl both make a lot of sense, but the cost to acquire will almost certainly be too rich for the Wolves. Would Minnesota really risk giving up multiple firsts for them?

I guess that leads me back to a preferred option of mine: Jonathan Isaac. I'm aware of the durability concerns, and they're plenty fair. He's played in just 136 of Orlando's 391 regular-season games since they drafted him in 2017. He hasn't played a game since August 2, 2020. He endured a torn ACL almost two years ago as well as a minor hamstring surgery this past March. That presents moderate risk for any team looking to acquire him. However, I also think that's why the former sixth-overall pick would even be available. Had Isaac remained healthy I think he'd be considered a significant building block in a comparable way to Jaren Jackson Jr. Add to that the Magic winning the draft lottery in a year that is saturated with talented bigs at the top and there's a very real scenario where Isaac will be gettable at a price that would be more than fair for his talent level.

And since we're talking about risk, we also have to talk about reward. Out of all of the names we've mentioned here, Isaac clearly presents the highest ceiling, in my opinion. He's essentially the archetype of the ideal big to pair next to Karl-Anthony Towns with his size, length, mobility, motor, defensive prowess, offensive respectability, and overall versatility. Not to mention, his skill set should play during the regular season and post-season-- versus acquiring a big that can be schemed out of a series. See: Steven Adams and others.

I think cost to acquire Isaac will be reasonable. I think it's possible that the worst of his injury troubles are behind him. I think he'd be a fantastic fit with the current pieces. And if for some reason it doesn't work out, his contract has built-in safety nets in terms of guaranteed money due to his inability to log the requisite amount of games played the last couple of seasons. He's just a very attractive buy-low candidate for a plethora of reasons.

Like your thoughts about levels of risk, that's what it really boils down to, I think mitigating that would be nice. Bring in a few different options, maybe your best fit guy like Isaac and a Nurkic. Maybe that means flipping Naz and or V8 but I think spreading that risk out with a few nice options would be the best all in approach.

MN needs to seek out ORL they may be the most willing trade partner and the best fit. They have lots of bigs that have upside, potential to develop and be long term fits next to KAT. They may even have interest in Beasley, DLO, Nowell, or Bolmaro.

Cam - You make a great case for Jonathan Isaac. On the risk-reward scale, he is definitely the highest reward option among the bigs we've been discussing as possible acquisition targets for the Wolves. But I'd also say he's the highest risk. He's been in the League five seasons, but has played more than 34 games in only one of them. Here are his seasons, starting with his rookie year:

2017-18: Played 27 games (assortment of ankle and foot injuries)
2018-19: Played 75 games
2019-20: Played 34 games (assortment of knee, ankle, hamstring and back issues)
2020-21: Played 0 games (ACL tear)
2021-22: Played 0 games (ACL tear + hamstring injury/surgery during ACL rehab)

That's a lot of different lower extremity issues in a young guy who weighs 230-240 pounds. The worst was the left-knee ACL tear, which resulted in a longer rehab than you typically see. There seem to be some structure weaknesses in his lower body. You have to wonder whether his right knee is prone to an ACL tear similar to his repaired left knee. In any event, taken as a whole, I see way too much risk to justify giving up valuable trade assets in spite of his considerable upside. But I definitely see the case for getting him.

Beasley would have to be part of the package for Isaac to match salaries. My question is this: How much more, if anything, would the Wolves realistically need to give up to get him?

If the Wolves really want to roll the dice, how about DLO to Orlando for Fultz and Isaac? :). No way I'd do that, but talk about about high reward.