Minnesota Sports Forum

FNG wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:

FNG wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.

The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.

https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1523095672785756162?s=20&t=vbIkSs6dE9TYLO_ymUSnpQ

Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.

Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.

I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?

Because Wiggins was a dog who lacked effort. For all of D'Lo's shortcomings, I can't question his effort night in and night out. This was also a franchise that did nothing to address this problem. There were many a night where his effort should have caused him to ride the bench and they never did, maybe to justify his contract or because the other options also sucked or really because they feared tuning him out completely. That stuff wears on teams. If we think KAT complaining about fouls every night wears on us as viewers, what do you think Wiggins jogging from FT line to FT line every game and not doing much was doing to us?

I'll also say this. If Wiggins is here, there's no Ant, and even if we messed around and drafted Kuminga anyway, he probably doesn't play much because we're still force feeding Wiggins 30+ minutes a night hoping he'll make good on his pinky swear.

Wild, I'm trying to understand why there would have been no Ant, and maybe I'm missing something. But I thought Wig and DLO were fairly comparable in their contributions in the pre-Ant year, so we would have had a commensurate record and still been in the lottery. I don't think you are saying we would have had a better record with Wig instead of DLO, and thus might have had fewer ping pong balls, are you? I don't think we would have been personally.

It's still just revisionist history and doesn't mean a damn thing...it's just fun to discuss in light of who made up 40% of the Warriors' starting lineup in a 30-point win!

Having Wiggins on a max deal at the wing spots kinda forces the team to have to take LaMelo Ball instead. Otherwise, it's just Rubio as your PG and we already know how some of y'all feel about him.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

FNG wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

Camden wrote:

FNG wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:I'll pose this question. If the Wolves and Bucks had swapped DLO and Jrue Holiday last summer, would the Wolves have advanced to the second round of the playoffs? The easy answer in my view is yes. I know there wasn't any change of that swap last summer. Nor is there any hope for that swap in the future. My point is that we don't need DLO to be a star. We just need a third core player at Holiday's level, which is a significantly higher level than where DLO's at.

The next question is whether there's a Holiday-caliber player the Wolves can conceivably acquire this summer to replace DLO as our third guy at around $30M per year? I can't think of anyone right now, but that's a question worth pondering.

https://twitter.com/DaneMooreNBA/status/1523095672785756162?s=20&t=vbIkSs6dE9TYLO_ymUSnpQ

Revisionist history, Lip, I know, and a topic we have beaten into the ground. But I also think we would have won the Memphis series if we hadn't done this deal I never supported.

Minnesota wouldn't have won 46 games this season, won the play-in game, and even been matched up with Memphis in a playoff series if that trade wasn't made. We'd be prepared for yet another draft lottery and possibly talks of completely blowing the team up. But yeah, somehow we'd be better off with Andrew Wiggins dragging this team to the cellar as we saw for much of the six years he played in Minnesota. Great take.

I don't understand why. Wiggins is a better player than DLO. Add the #1 pick and it's not even debatable. Why wouldn't we have won 46 games this season?

Because Wiggins was a dog who lacked effort. For all of D'Lo's shortcomings, I can't question his effort night in and night out. This was also a franchise that did nothing to address this problem. There were many a night where his effort should have caused him to ride the bench and they never did, maybe to justify his contract or because the other options also sucked or really because they feared tuning him out completely. That stuff wears on teams. If we think KAT complaining about fouls every night wears on us as viewers, what do you think Wiggins jogging from FT line to FT line every game and not doing much was doing to us?

I'll also say this. If Wiggins is here, there's no Ant, and even if we messed around and drafted Kuminga anyway, he probably doesn't play much because we're still force feeding Wiggins 30+ minutes a night hoping he'll make good on his pinky swear.

Wild, I'm trying to understand why there would have been no Ant, and maybe I'm missing something. But I thought Wig and DLO were fairly comparable in their contributions in the pre-Ant year, so we would have had a commensurate record and still been in the lottery. I don't think you are saying we would have had a better record with Wig instead of DLO, and thus might have had fewer ping pong balls, are you? I don't think we would have been personally.

It's still just revisionist history and doesn't mean a damn thing...it's just fun to discuss in light of who made up 40% of the Warriors' starting lineup in a 30-point win!

Having Wiggins on a max deal at the wing spots kinda forces the team to have to take LaMelo Ball instead. Otherwise, it's just Rubio as your PG and we already know how some of y'all feel about him.

Ah, I get it. Could be, but to me Ant was such an obvious choice as the #1 pick, I don't even think Rosas could have screwed that one up! You might be right that Rosas wouldn't have done the Rubio deal if he hadn't traded for DLO, but I don't think that changes the decision to pick the guy I saw as head and shoulders above everyone else in the draft.

There is no way Ant was the "obvious choice" if we had kept Wiggins. He was by no means the obvious choice among many astute draft observers on this board. In hindsight, I think we're all glad we got him, but that wasn't the case at the time. They overlap positions, as both play a lot of wing and both (at the time) were known as scorers first and foremost. Wiseman or Ball likely would have been the pick.

In my mind, this trade was mutually beneficial. It gave Golden State an athletic wing and primary defender and it gave Minnesota a playmaker and FOK (friend of KAT). Kek has exhaustively demonstrated that when DLO and KAT play together we easily have a winning record. That was simply not the case with KAT and Wiggins. Had it been, we would have never traded him.

All of that being said, we may eventually need to move on from DLO. And that's OK too. But no one can doubt that he was a major contributor to a great season and helped this franchise take a big step forward.

Q-was-here wrote:There is no way Ant was the "obvious choice" if we had kept Wiggins. He was by no means the obvious choice among many astute draft observers on this board. In hindsight, I think we're all glad we got him, but that wasn't the case at the time. They overlap positions, as both play a lot of wing and both (at the time) were known as scorers first and foremost. Wiseman or Ball likely would have been the pick.

In my mind, this trade was mutually beneficial. It gave Golden State an athletic wing and primary defender and it gave Minnesota a playmaker and FOK (friend of KAT). Kek has exhaustively demonstrated that when DLO and KAT play together we easily have a winning record. That was simply not the case with KAT and Wiggins. Had it been, we would have never traded him.

All of that being said, we may eventually need to move on from DLO. And that's OK too. But no one can doubt that he was a major contributor to a great season and helped this franchise take a big step forward.

Q, it would have been an obvious choice for me...I saw Ant as head and shoulders above the other two guys. There was no video on Wiseman other than him dunking on much shorter AAU guys (and a few much shorter guys in college) during an abbreviated pre-season...WAY too risky for a #1 pick. And although I was not here during the draft discussion, I wonder if there were many LaMelo supporters on the board...I admit he's been a pleasant surprise, but I certainly was wary of the whole "Ball Experience". I get that they are both wings, but I have always seen Ant as a SG and Wig as a SF. I would have left a bag of dog poop on Rosas's doorstep if he had drafted one of those other two guys. (although I guess I wouldn't have been as furious if he had made a nice trade down) But he did some other things that made me scratch my head, so who knows.

Can all agree that both DLO and Wiggins were both wildly inconsistent . DLO showed more consistent effort but it didn't always show in the results. The Memphis series was so close that had DLO showed up at all I believe this team would've moved on.

FNG wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:There is no way Ant was the "obvious choice" if we had kept Wiggins. He was by no means the obvious choice among many astute draft observers on this board. In hindsight, I think we're all glad we got him, but that wasn't the case at the time. They overlap positions, as both play a lot of wing and both (at the time) were known as scorers first and foremost. Wiseman or Ball likely would have been the pick.

In my mind, this trade was mutually beneficial. It gave Golden State an athletic wing and primary defender and it gave Minnesota a playmaker and FOK (friend of KAT). Kek has exhaustively demonstrated that when DLO and KAT play together we easily have a winning record. That was simply not the case with KAT and Wiggins. Had it been, we would have never traded him.

All of that being said, we may eventually need to move on from DLO. And that's OK too. But no one can doubt that he was a major contributor to a great season and helped this franchise take a big step forward.

Q, it would have been an obvious choice for me...I saw Ant as head and shoulders above the other two guys. There was no video on Wiseman other than him dunking on much shorter AAU guys (and a few much shorter guys in college) during an abbreviated pre-season...WAY too risky for a #1 pick. And although I was not here during the draft discussion, I wonder if there were many LaMelo supporters on the board...I admit he's been a pleasant surprise, but I certainly was wary of the whole "Ball Experience". I get that they are both wings, but I have always seen Ant as a SG and Wig as a SF. I would have left a bag of dog poop on Rosas's doorstep if he had drafted one of those other two guys. (although I guess I wouldn't have been as furious if he had made a nice trade down) But he did some other things that made me scratch my head, so who knows.

It may have been an obvious choice for you and congrats on your prescience, but that did not mean it would have been an obvious choice for the front office if Wiggins were still on the roster. You are making an assumption which may not be true.

Q-was-here wrote:

FNG wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:There is no way Ant was the "obvious choice" if we had kept Wiggins. He was by no means the obvious choice among many astute draft observers on this board. In hindsight, I think we're all glad we got him, but that wasn't the case at the time. They overlap positions, as both play a lot of wing and both (at the time) were known as scorers first and foremost. Wiseman or Ball likely would have been the pick.

In my mind, this trade was mutually beneficial. It gave Golden State an athletic wing and primary defender and it gave Minnesota a playmaker and FOK (friend of KAT). Kek has exhaustively demonstrated that when DLO and KAT play together we easily have a winning record. That was simply not the case with KAT and Wiggins. Had it been, we would have never traded him.

All of that being said, we may eventually need to move on from DLO. And that's OK too. But no one can doubt that he was a major contributor to a great season and helped this franchise take a big step forward.

Q, it would have been an obvious choice for me...I saw Ant as head and shoulders above the other two guys. There was no video on Wiseman other than him dunking on much shorter AAU guys (and a few much shorter guys in college) during an abbreviated pre-season...WAY too risky for a #1 pick. And although I was not here during the draft discussion, I wonder if there were many LaMelo supporters on the board...I admit he's been a pleasant surprise, but I certainly was wary of the whole "Ball Experience". I get that they are both wings, but I have always seen Ant as a SG and Wig as a SF. I would have left a bag of dog poop on Rosas's doorstep if he had drafted one of those other two guys. (although I guess I wouldn't have been as furious if he had made a nice trade down) But he did some other things that made me scratch my head, so who knows.

It may have been an obvious choice for you and congrats on your prescience, but that did not mean it would have been an obvious choice for the front office if Wiggins were still on the roster. You are making an assumption which may not be true.

I believe LaMelo was in my top 3 and I liked him more than Ant at the time as I was concerned with Ant's efficiency in college, lack of defense and some of the crazy things he said. I am glad to me wrong about Ant. I think I called LaMelo a boom or bust candidate who had perennial all-star upside but who could also flame out. I don't know if anyone else saw that upside in LaMelo and I think I got a few snickerish comments for saying so. That said, LaMelo's inefficiency made me not want to draft him #1. I wanted to trade down into the 6 or 7 spot and go for Hayes or Vassell and like the majority on here, thought Wiseman might be the safest pick.

This is what I found for the consensus mock draft right before the draft. Like many years, things evolved as it came closer to actual draft day. But at the end, they had Edwards was #1, Wiseman #2 and Ball #3. And that's how they went. But as stated in my link, one other option out there was would the Wolves trade out of the pick or not:

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

Carlos Danger wrote:This is what I found for the consensus mock draft right before the draft. Like many years, things evolved as it came closer to actual draft day. But at the end, they had Edwards was #1, Wiseman #2 and Ball #3. And that's how they went. But as stated in my link, one other option out there was would the Wolves trade out of the pick or not:

https://www.nba.com/news/2020-consensus-mock-draft

Again, I have to believe this would have looked differently if Wiggins were still on our roster and the front office was still committed to him. Would they really have taken another wing scorer vs. Ball, Wiseman, or trading down???

Q-was-here wrote:

FNG wrote:

Q-was-here wrote:There is no way Ant was the "obvious choice" if we had kept Wiggins. He was by no means the obvious choice among many astute draft observers on this board. In hindsight, I think we're all glad we got him, but that wasn't the case at the time. They overlap positions, as both play a lot of wing and both (at the time) were known as scorers first and foremost. Wiseman or Ball likely would have been the pick.

In my mind, this trade was mutually beneficial. It gave Golden State an athletic wing and primary defender and it gave Minnesota a playmaker and FOK (friend of KAT). Kek has exhaustively demonstrated that when DLO and KAT play together we easily have a winning record. That was simply not the case with KAT and Wiggins. Had it been, we would have never traded him.

All of that being said, we may eventually need to move on from DLO. And that's OK too. But no one can doubt that he was a major contributor to a great season and helped this franchise take a big step forward.

Q, it would have been an obvious choice for me...I saw Ant as head and shoulders above the other two guys. There was no video on Wiseman other than him dunking on much shorter AAU guys (and a few much shorter guys in college) during an abbreviated pre-season...WAY too risky for a #1 pick. And although I was not here during the draft discussion, I wonder if there were many LaMelo supporters on the board...I admit he's been a pleasant surprise, but I certainly was wary of the whole "Ball Experience". I get that they are both wings, but I have always seen Ant as a SG and Wig as a SF. I would have left a bag of dog poop on Rosas's doorstep if he had drafted one of those other two guys. (although I guess I wouldn't have been as furious if he had made a nice trade down) But he did some other things that made me scratch my head, so who knows.

It may have been an obvious choice for you and congrats on your prescience, but that did not mean it would have been an obvious choice for the front office if Wiggins were still on the roster. You are making an assumption which may not be true.

Ha, I'm not so prescient...I remember being excited about Derrick Williams and Wes Johnson! But this one seemed easy to me at the time (although I'll admit that with hindsight Ball is much better than I thought)...I just couldn't see chancing a #1 pick on a guy like Wiseman who had only played a handful of pre-season games against mostly substandard competition. He may still turn out to be servicable or he may turn out to be Greg Oden...but whatever his final destiny, I didn't have enough data points on him to consider him for #1- unlike Ant who we had hours of video on from a full year of college basketball against good competition.

But it seems like we've veered away from the original point that Dane Moore made this morning...the irony of Wig and Kuminga starting and playing so well against a team that Finchie had to bench DLO against in a critical 4th quarter. But we do tend to veer a little on this board!