Minnesota Sports Forum

#1 for Carter and Haliburton?

Ok. Sounds good to me.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:#1 for Carter and Haliburton?

Ok. Sounds good to me.

I wouldn't complain about that. But

Carter is a solid defensive big, make no mistake about it. The problem is he's a very old-school defensive big that doesn't bring much to the table offensively. Even on a crap Bulls team he could never crack the 30 MPG mark. But he and Dunn turned the Bulls into a solid defense last year.

I just don't see the Wolves pairing a stout, defensive type next to KAT unless he potentially brings one or more perimeter-type skills to the table like perimeter defense, shooting, passing, or ball handling. It's just not aligned to Rosas' philosophy.

Q12543 wrote:Carter is a solid defensive big, make no mistake about it. The problem is he's a very old-school defensive big that doesn't bring much to the table offensively. Even on a crap Bulls team he could never crack the 30 MPG mark. But he and Dunn turned the Bulls into a solid defense last year.

I just don't see the Wolves pairing a stout, defensive type next to KAT unless he potentially brings one or more perimeter-type skills to the table like perimeter defense, shooting, passing, or ball handling. It's just not aligned to Rosas' philosophy.

Maybe.

As for Carter, there are reports he was hamstrung by coaches as much or more than his own limitations his first two seasons. And I've seen multiple reports about his passing and ability to set solid screens.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Carter is a solid defensive big, make no mistake about it. The problem is he's a very old-school defensive big that doesn't bring much to the table offensively. Even on a crap Bulls team he could never crack the 30 MPG mark. But he and Dunn turned the Bulls into a solid defense last year.

I just don't see the Wolves pairing a stout, defensive type next to KAT unless he potentially brings one or more perimeter-type skills to the table like perimeter defense, shooting, passing, or ball handling. It's just not aligned to Rosas' philosophy.

Maybe.

As for Carter, there are reports he was hamstrung by coaches as much or more than his own limitations his first two seasons. And I've seen multiple reports about his passing and ability to set solid screens.

FWIW the Bulls Had lots of options to play at Carter's spot. They had Daniel Gafford (might be a reason they would be willing to move Carter) Luke Kornet and they even played Felicio some. Will he be able to stretch out to 3? He is a good FT shooter and he did it in college. He has a good looking shot. I watched some videos of him this morning and he doesn't exactly excite me but he is still 21 and bigs often take a bit of time. I can't decide if he is better than average defensively based on advanced stats. I kinda doubt the Wolves would really want him unless they felt like he could eventually be a spot up shooting 3 point guy but there might be value in adding him.

monsterpile wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

Q12543 wrote:Carter is a solid defensive big, make no mistake about it. The problem is he's a very old-school defensive big that doesn't bring much to the table offensively. Even on a crap Bulls team he could never crack the 30 MPG mark. But he and Dunn turned the Bulls into a solid defense last year.

I just don't see the Wolves pairing a stout, defensive type next to KAT unless he potentially brings one or more perimeter-type skills to the table like perimeter defense, shooting, passing, or ball handling. It's just not aligned to Rosas' philosophy.

Maybe.

As for Carter, there are reports he was hamstrung by coaches as much or more than his own limitations his first two seasons. And I've seen multiple reports about his passing and ability to set solid screens.

FWIW the Bulls Had lots of options to play at Carter's spot. They had Daniel Gafford (might be a reason they would be willing to move Carter) Luke Kornet and they even played Felicio some. Will he be able to stretch out to 3? He is a good FT shooter and he did it in college. He has a good looking shot. I watched some videos of him this morning and he doesn't exactly excite me but he is still 21 and bigs often take a bit of time. I can't decide if he is better than average defensively based on advanced stats. I kinda doubt the Wolves would really want him unless they felt like he could eventually be a spot up shooting 3 point guy but there might be value in adding him.

He had a good D-PIPM, a good D-rating, and the team jumped to #12 in the league defensively last year with him playing the most Center minutes. Hard to see how he is not a clear plus defensively.

I'd actually love to trade for him + #4, but just don't think Rosas does it. It's also why virtually no draftnick outside of us amateurs believes he'll take Wiseman. It's unfortunate.

lipoli390 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:So after connecting some dots with little bits of information I came up with this. Who says no?

Hawks trade pick 6 and Dedmon for Oubre and pick 17.
Wolves trade pick 17, Johnson, Culver, and Layman for pick 6, Rubio, and Dedmon.
Thunder trade Paul for pick 10, Johnson, and Culver.
Suns trade Oubre, Rubio, pick 10 for Paul, Layman and pick 25.

Rosas would say no. He's not trading for a 35-year old. If Rosas is in the market for a star, he'll be looking for someone close in age to his current duo of Towns and Russell. So I think it comes down to Simmons, Beal or Booker. I can't think of another young star might conceivably be available. And I honestly don't think Booker will be gettable. So I think it's Simmons or Beal. Simmons would be the guy I'd want, but that would probably require the Wizards to send Beal to the Wizards in a 3-way.

As I've written several times before, I think the Wizards are ready to blow it up and start a rebuild. Their front office can't possibly believe that John Wall will return at his age from an Achilles tear and combine with Beal to take the Wizards from one of the worst teams in the League to playoff contention. And they have to know that the team will become a championship contender with those two as their core. So while Wizards front office talks publicly about wanting to keep Beal and take a shot with Wall, I've never believed them.

They have over $100 million reasons to have to believe in Wall. It's not as if they have a choice.

They're not gonna blow it up no matter how much you want it to happen. They're not gonna start an all out rebuild until they're ready.

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:So after connecting some dots with little bits of information I came up with this. Who says no?

Hawks trade pick 6 and Dedmon for Oubre and pick 17.
Wolves trade pick 17, Johnson, Culver, and Layman for pick 6, Rubio, and Dedmon.
Thunder trade Paul for pick 10, Johnson, and Culver.
Suns trade Oubre, Rubio, pick 10 for Paul, Layman and pick 25.

Rosas would say no. He's not trading for a 35-year old. If Rosas is in the market for a star, he'll be looking for someone close in age to his current duo of Towns and Russell. So I think it comes down to Simmons, Beal or Booker. I can't think of another young star might conceivably be available. And I honestly don't think Booker will be gettable. So I think it's Simmons or Beal. Simmons would be the guy I'd want, but that would probably require the Wizards to send Beal to the Wizards in a 3-way.

As I've written several times before, I think the Wizards are ready to blow it up and start a rebuild. Their front office can't possibly believe that John Wall will return at his age from an Achilles tear and combine with Beal to take the Wizards from one of the worst teams in the League to playoff contention. And they have to know that the team will become a championship contender with those two as their core. So while Wizards front office talks publicly about wanting to keep Beal and take a shot with Wall, I've never believed them.

They have over $100 million reasons to have to believe in Wall. It's not as if they have a choice.

They're not gonna blow it up no matter how much you want it to happen. They're not gonna start an all out rebuild until they're ready.

Well, I think they should be ready to blow it up. This isn't wishful thinking on my part. If I were the Wizards' PBO, I'd start the rebuild November 18. Wall's contract can't stop the Wizards from doing deals to accumulate valuable draft assets, add young guys on relatively cheap contracts and trim payroll. With Wall, it's just a waiting game. Eventually, he'll have positive trade value as an expiring contract. In the meantime, the Wizards can start adding draft assets and young talent while trading Beal's contract for a somewhat smaller or shorter one.

Beal is the key to any Wizards rebuild and he'll never have higher trade than he has now. Every time he takes the floor, he risks an injury that will obliterate or substantially reduce his trade value. He's at the peak of his powers and would bring a huge return right now. Moreover, there are two teams at the top of this year's draft that appear to be highly motivated to get Beal - the Wolves and Warriors. Both teams also have assets that would be attractive to a team seeking to start a rebuild.

I could be wrong about whether the Wizards front office is quietly entertaining the idea of starting a rebuild with a draft-day trade next week. But if I were in charge of the Wizards organization, I'd be be looking to get the rebuild started and I'd be talking in earnest with both the Wolves and Warriors.

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:So after connecting some dots with little bits of information I came up with this. Who says no?

Hawks trade pick 6 and Dedmon for Oubre and pick 17.
Wolves trade pick 17, Johnson, Culver, and Layman for pick 6, Rubio, and Dedmon.
Thunder trade Paul for pick 10, Johnson, and Culver.
Suns trade Oubre, Rubio, pick 10 for Paul, Layman and pick 25.

Rosas would say no. He's not trading for a 35-year old. If Rosas is in the market for a star, he'll be looking for someone close in age to his current duo of Towns and Russell. So I think it comes down to Simmons, Beal or Booker. I can't think of another young star might conceivably be available. And I honestly don't think Booker will be gettable. So I think it's Simmons or Beal. Simmons would be the guy I'd want, but that would probably require the Wizards to send Beal to the Wizards in a 3-way.

As I've written several times before, I think the Wizards are ready to blow it up and start a rebuild. Their front office can't possibly believe that John Wall will return at his age from an Achilles tear and combine with Beal to take the Wizards from one of the worst teams in the League to playoff contention. And they have to know that the team will become a championship contender with those two as their core. So while Wizards front office talks publicly about wanting to keep Beal and take a shot with Wall, I've never believed them.

They have over $100 million reasons to have to believe in Wall. It's not as if they have a choice.

They're not gonna blow it up no matter how much you want it to happen. They're not gonna start an all out rebuild until they're ready.

Well, I think they should be ready to blow it up. This isn't wishful thinking on my part. If I were the Wizards' PBO, I'd start the rebuild November 18. Wall's contract can't stop the Wizards from doing deals to accumulate valuable draft assets, add young guys on relatively cheap contracts and trim payroll. With Wall, it's just a waiting game. Eventually, he'll have positive trade value as an expiring contract. In the meantime, the Wizards can start adding draft assets and young talent while trading Beal's contract for a somewhat smaller or shorter one.

Beal is the key to any will never have higher trade than he has now. Every time he takes the floor, he risks an injury that will obliterate or substantially reduce his trade value. He's at the peak of his powers and would bring a huge return right now. Moreover, there are two teams at the top of this year's draft that appear to be highly motivated to get Beal - the Wolves and Warriors. Both teams also have assets that would be attractive to a team seeking to start a rebuild.

I could be wrong about whether the Wizards front office is quietly entertaining the idea of starting a rebuild with a draft-day trade next week. But if I were in charge of the Wizards organization, I'd be be looking to get the rebuild started and I'd be talking in earnest with both the Wolves and Warriors.

I wonder if ownership may be part of why they haven't done the rebuild yet.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

WildWolf2813 wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:

Phenom's_Revenge wrote:So after connecting some dots with little bits of information I came up with this. Who says no?

Hawks trade pick 6 and Dedmon for Oubre and pick 17.
Wolves trade pick 17, Johnson, Culver, and Layman for pick 6, Rubio, and Dedmon.
Thunder trade Paul for pick 10, Johnson, and Culver.
Suns trade Oubre, Rubio, pick 10 for Paul, Layman and pick 25.

Rosas would say no. He's not trading for a 35-year old. If Rosas is in the market for a star, he'll be looking for someone close in age to his current duo of Towns and Russell. So I think it comes down to Simmons, Beal or Booker. I can't think of another young star might conceivably be available. And I honestly don't think Booker will be gettable. So I think it's Simmons or Beal. Simmons would be the guy I'd want, but that would probably require the Wizards to send Beal to the Wizards in a 3-way.

As I've written several times before, I think the Wizards are ready to blow it up and start a rebuild. Their front office can't possibly believe that John Wall will return at his age from an Achilles tear and combine with Beal to take the Wizards from one of the worst teams in the League to playoff contention. And they have to know that the team will become a championship contender with those two as their core. So while Wizards front office talks publicly about wanting to keep Beal and take a shot with Wall, I've never believed them.

They have over $100 million reasons to have to believe in Wall. It's not as if they have a choice.

They're not gonna blow it up no matter how much you want it to happen. They're not gonna start an all out rebuild until they're ready.

Well, I think they should be ready to blow it up. This isn't wishful thinking on my part. If I were the Wizards' PBO, I'd start the rebuild November 18. Wall's contract can't stop the Wizards from doing deals to accumulate valuable draft assets, add young guys on relatively cheap contracts and trim payroll. With Wall, it's just a waiting game. Eventually, he'll have positive trade value as an expiring contract. In the meantime, the Wizards can start adding draft assets and young talent while trading Beal's contract for a somewhat smaller or shorter one.

Beal is the key to any will never have higher trade than he has now. Every time he takes the floor, he risks an injury that will obliterate or substantially reduce his trade value. He's at the peak of his powers and would bring a huge return right now. Moreover, there are two teams at the top of this year's draft that appear to be highly motivated to get Beal - the Wolves and Warriors. Both teams also have assets that would be attractive to a team seeking to start a rebuild.

I could be wrong about whether the Wizards front office is quietly entertaining the idea of starting a rebuild with a draft-day trade next week. But if I were in charge of the Wizards organization, I'd be be looking to get the rebuild started and I'd be talking in earnest with both the Wolves and Warriors.

I wonder if ownership may be part of why they haven't done the rebuild yet.

Might be. Hard to know. Knowing when to cut loose and start over is one of the keys to good management of an NBA franchise. You have to know when you've hit a dead end and maximize your existing assets to start over. I would think the Wizards' front office has figured that out already, but who know. As you suggested, maybe their front office has figured that out but has been overruled by ownership.