Minnesota Sports Forum

I take no objection with someone wanting to rip KAT or Ant or all of them for that loss, good on anyone for being so equitable in their criticism. I guess the next time Rubio makes a horrible play in a costly moment I will try to make sure to criticize everyone on the team during future game threads.

thedoper wrote:I take no objection with someone wanting to rip KAT or Ant or all of them for that loss, good on anyone for being so equitable in their criticism. I guess the next time Rubio makes a horrible play in a costly moment I will try to make sure to criticize everyone on the team during future game threads.

That's the spirit.

I'll be right there with you ripping him with multiple posts about his one TO.

Abe's a lot more reasonable than I am, so I'll take the absurdity of the Rubio piling on even further. The guy had a double double last night with just one TO and was a +5. If DLO ever put up a double double with a positive +/-, we'd be organizing a parade for him...and I'd be the Grand Marshall holding a big banner saying "Russell has turned the corner!". But don't hold your breath, because DLO only has one double double in his 20 starts this season, and he had 3 TOs in that game. Meanwhile Rubio has had 4 double doubles in his 26 starts this year (and 3 in his last 4 games), and has been only one point or assist away from double doubles in two other games.

But despite this level of play, here's a sample of the comments about his performance last night:

"Rubio's killing us again. Terrible game for him."
"How does he continue to get so much leash"
"Rubio terrible"
"Better than total horseshit" (now there's a strong endorsement...must have been the turnover!)
"played like dogshit"
"worse than his final numbers"

And even I joined in the hog pile with "Rubio had a poor game...for him". I think I just wanted to be part of the gang ;-) .

I think I have a theory about why Rubio gets so much hate here...deserved or not...and DLO seems to get a pass from often the same group of Rubio Deniers. DLO's game is pretty, and Ricky's is not. I've commented before in game threads about how gorgeous DLO's mid-range shot is, while Ricky's shot is flat and ugly...even his free throws. If they awarded wins on style points, I would ask for the front row seat on the DLO bandwagon. But unfortunately while they hand out All-Star awards (and probably ROY awards) based on how many points you can put in the box score, they still award wins based on scoring more points than the other team...and this is something the advanced on/off stats in Cleaning the Glass tell us DLO is demonstrably bad at.

I expect the Rubio hate will continue...in the short time I've been here, it's been a staple of this board, and I don't expect it to change. But I'm still scratching my head about all the ripping a PG gets after putting up double doubles in 3 out the last 4 games. It's a mystery...

FNG wrote:Abe's a lot more reasonable than I am, so I'll take the absurdity of the Rubio piling on even further. The guy had a double double last night with just one TO and was a +5. If DLO ever put up a double double with a positive +/-, we'd be organizing a parade for him...and I'd be the Grand Marshall holding a big banner saying "Russell has turned the corner!". But don't hold your breath, because DLO only has one double double in his 20 starts this season, and he had 3 TOs in that game. Meanwhile Rubio has had 4 double doubles in his 26 starts this year (and 3 in his last 4 games), and has been only one point or assist away from double doubles in two other games.

But despite this level of play, here's a sample of the comments about his performance last night:

"Rubio's killing us again. Terrible game for him."
"How does he continue to get so much leash"
"Rubio terrible"
"Better than total horseshit" (now there's a strong endorsement...must have been the turnover!)
"played like dogshit"
"worse than his final numbers"

And even I joined in the hog pile with "Rubio had a poor game...for him". I think I just wanted to be part of the gang ;-) .

I think I have a theory about why Rubio gets so much hate here...deserved or not...and DLO seems to get a pass from often the same group of Rubio Deniers. DLO's game is pretty, and Ricky's is not. I've commented before in game threads about how gorgeous DLO's mid-range shot is, while Ricky's shot is flat and ugly...even his free throws. If they awarded wins on style points, I would ask for the front row seat on the DLO bandwagon. But unfortunately while they hand out All-Star awards (and probably ROY awards) based on how many points you can put in the box score, they still award wins based on scoring more points than the other team...and this is something the advanced on/off stats in Cleaning the Glass tell us DLO is demonstrably bad at.

I expect the Rubio hate will continue...in the short time I've been here, it's been a staple of this board, and I don't expect it to change. But I'm still scratching my head about all the ripping a PG gets after putting up double doubles in 3 out the last 4 games. It's a mystery...

To be fair, FNG, the love affair with Rubio is a decade old. It was a torrid, heated affair.

So it's to be expected to have a bit of a swing the other way. And let's face it, his game is polarizing. Anybody with a unique game with deep flaws in it will gain his fair share of fans and detractors.

Just adding some context for the new(er) guy.

Maybe watch the games and you'll have context to go with your little box score summaries. That would be pretty helpful I'm sure.

Also, with how much you talk about Ricky Rubio and his winning play, why is it that the guy has been on two teams better than .500 in his ten-year career and that core had already established itself with a 50-win season prior to Rubio's presence? Weird. You'd expect much more from a guy that has such a winning spirit. I'm surprised he doesn't elevate his teams to new heights with his plus-minus superpowers.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

FNG wrote:Abe's a lot more reasonable than I am, so I'll take the absurdity of the Rubio piling on even further. The guy had a double double last night with just one TO and was a +5. If DLO ever put up a double double with a positive +/-, we'd be organizing a parade for him...and I'd be the Grand Marshall holding a big banner saying "Russell has turned the corner!". But don't hold your breath, because DLO only has one double double in his 20 starts this season, and he had 3 TOs in that game. Meanwhile Rubio has had 4 double doubles in his 26 starts this year (and 3 in his last 4 games), and has been only one point or assist away from double doubles in two other games.

But despite this level of play, here's a sample of the comments about his performance last night:

"Rubio's killing us again. Terrible game for him."
"How does he continue to get so much leash"
"Rubio terrible"
"Better than total horseshit" (now there's a strong endorsement...must have been the turnover!)
"played like dogshit"
"worse than his final numbers"

And even I joined in the hog pile with "Rubio had a poor game...for him". I think I just wanted to be part of the gang ;-) .

I think I have a theory about why Rubio gets so much hate here...deserved or not...and DLO seems to get a pass from often the same group of Rubio Deniers. DLO's game is pretty, and Ricky's is not. I've commented before in game threads about how gorgeous DLO's mid-range shot is, while Ricky's shot is flat and ugly...even his free throws. If they awarded wins on style points, I would ask for the front row seat on the DLO bandwagon. But unfortunately while they hand out All-Star awards (and probably ROY awards) based on how many points you can put in the box score, they still award wins based on scoring more points than the other team...and this is something the advanced on/off stats in Cleaning the Glass tell us DLO is demonstrably bad at.

I expect the Rubio hate will continue...in the short time I've been here, it's been a staple of this board, and I don't expect it to change. But I'm still scratching my head about all the ripping a PG gets after putting up double doubles in 3 out the last 4 games. It's a mystery...

To be fair, FNG, the love affair with Rubio is a decade old. It was a torrid, heated affair.

So it's to be expected to have a bit of a swing the other way. And let's face it, his game is polarizing. Anybody with a unique game with deep flaws in it will gain his fair share of fans and detractors.

Just adding some context for the new(er) guy.

I appreciate the context, Abe. Yeah, I wouldn't have known that there was a Rubio love affair on this board a decade old, and that helps me understand what seems to me to be a puzzling level of consistent hate for the guy. My experience with friends I argue basketball with has been the opposite of what you're describing here...most are Rubio detractors because of his below average shooting (and admittedly ugly form), and I am often put in the position of having to defend a guy who has been a pretty reliable facilitator and defender in his career and widely praised by his teammates. But hearing that the opposite is true on this board, I guess I understand why the GDTs seem to consist primarily of Rubio criticism...whether his stats that night are good or not. I think I'm hearing the anti-Ricky crowd is merely trying to provide some balance to what sounds like was universal love for Ricky in the past on this board. I kind of enjoy reading the GDTs as I'm watching replays of games, but the Rubio bashing gets a little boring and appears uninformed at times. Your context will make it a little more palatable.

Interpreting name calling of crappy play as hate is weird to me. Ive had many people I respect a great deal call out my substandard athletic performances as horseshit. Never interpreted it as hate. I hope Ricky thought his play last night was horseshit because we need more out of a leader and our lead PG in minutes on this awful squad. I dont hate Rubio at all, but he's playing a key role on one of the worst Timberwolves teams of all time. Hard for me to look at that narrative and conclude anything but horseshit. Is he the only one to blame? No. But he has consistently had people making excuses for him his whole career. I stopped doing it a long time ago even though I was front and center in my sordid love affair with Ricky at the beginning and made up tons of fairy tales as to why he was actually a winner when reality showed otherwise.

FNG wrote:Abe's a lot more reasonable than I am, so I'll take the absurdity of the Rubio piling on even further. The guy had a double double last night with just one TO and was a +5. If DLO ever put up a double double with a positive +/-, we'd be organizing a parade for him...and I'd be the Grand Marshall holding a big banner saying "Russell has turned the corner!". But don't hold your breath, because DLO only has one double double in his 20 starts this season, and he had 3 TOs in that game. Meanwhile Rubio has had 4 double doubles in his 26 starts this year (and 3 in his last 4 games), and has been only one point or assist away from double doubles in two other games.

But despite this level of play, here's a sample of the comments about his performance last night:

"Rubio's killing us again. Terrible game for him."
"How does he continue to get so much leash"
"Rubio terrible"
"Better than total horseshit" (now there's a strong endorsement...must have been the turnover!)
"played like dogshit"
"worse than his final numbers"

And even I joined in the hog pile with "Rubio had a poor game...for him". I think I just wanted to be part of the gang ;-) .

I think I have a theory about why Rubio gets so much hate here...deserved or not...and DLO seems to get a pass from often the same group of Rubio Deniers. DLO's game is pretty, and Ricky's is not. I've commented before in game threads about how gorgeous DLO's mid-range shot is, while Ricky's shot is flat and ugly...even his free throws. If they awarded wins on style points, I would ask for the front row seat on the DLO bandwagon. But unfortunately while they hand out All-Star awards (and probably ROY awards) based on how many points you can put in the box score, they still award wins based on scoring more points than the other team...and this is something the advanced on/off stats in Cleaning the Glass tell us DLO is demonstrably bad at.

I expect the Rubio hate will continue...in the short time I've been here, it's been a staple of this board, and I don't expect it to change. But I'm still scratching my head about all the ripping a PG gets after putting up double doubles in 3 out the last 4 games. It's a mystery...

FNG, your kind of moving in the right direction here, but you're not quite getting the full picture. As a DLO hater and someone who is apathetic about Rubio, I feel I can add some objectivity. The staunch DLO supporters are terrified of any Rubio success because of how it might affect DLO's standing with the team and his minutes. So they are going to rip Rubio at every possible opportunity, while simultaneously pumping up DLO. It's silly because of course it's an exercise in futility. Nothing said here has ever had any influence outside this URL. But this type of thing is nothing new to this board. Pretty much all of us could see that Ryan Saunders was unfit to coach an NBA team. But the few who constantly harped on how terrible he was are the same who defended Thibs to the death. Everything has an agenda and is based on something prior. Occasionally you will see references to years-old arguments had on this board. It's all part of the same culture. Nothing really dies on this board, and little is forgotten. THUD sucks!!

As a guy who predicted a DLO vs. Rubio Civil War on this forum prior to the season... this makes me quite gleeful.

I'm full of glee.

I dont think there is any consensus on this board about anything. I have never promoted DLo at any great level, I just think its simpler than that. I think DLo is a better PG than Rubio and it isnt that close. That doesnt make Rubio worthless, it makes him a back up PG. Rubio doesnt seem content as a back up, but from what Ive seen of his career, he just doesnt have the chops to be a good PG on a winning team. Rubio has had 2/3rds of the meaningful PG minutes on this team and we're 10-33, many of those minutes have been with KAT. Any promotion of his spot as the starter has some hurdles to overcome.