Minnesota Sports Forum

I'm convinced Rosas really doesn't understand that defense is 50% of the game when you look at the players he has brought in. DLO? Beasley? Juancho? And now Prince. It's not surprising to me that Rosas is rumored to be interested in Gallo, who is one of four PFs with a worse DRPM than Prince last season. Frankly, Rubio seems to be the only acquisition Rosas has made during his tenure with even an average defensive reputation, so it's fitting that he has traded him for a guy who ranked near the bottom of the league defensively last season. It's not difficult to conclude that Rosas has no understanding of the value of defense in the NBA. I wonder if he spent any time watching this year's playoffs.

FNG wrote:I'm convinced Rosas really doesn't understand that defense is 50% of the game when you look at the players he has brought in. DLO? Beasley? Juancho? And now Prince. It's not surprising to me that Rosas is rumored to be interested in Gallo, who is one of four PFs with a worse DRPM than Prince last season. Frankly, Rubio seems to be the only acquisition Rosas has made during his tenure with even an average defensive reputation, so it's fitting that he has traded him for a guy who ranked near the bottom of the league defensively last season. It's not difficult to conclude that Rosas has no understanding of the value of defense in the NBA. I wonder if he spent any time watching this year's playoffs.

I agree. Of course, we both know Rosas must have watched the playoffs this year. I think it just comes down to Gersson not being the brightest bulb on the tree, but being stubborn in his resolve to follow his dimly lit, flawed path. He has an odd lens that appears to filter out certain realities that don't align with the vision in his head. It's truly bizarre when you look at the bigs he's chased, signed and, if Juancho's case, overpaid.

I'd like to know who in the organization is in charge of scouting and recommending lower-tier draft prospects. I want to know who that guy is and promote him. :)

After sleeping on this deal here are a few other things I've considered.

1. Prince being a trade asset. Combo/tweeter forwards that have flaws are kinda sexy in this league. Prince is a good 3 point shooter and I've seen guys like him who haven't exactly been guys anyone is dying to get go to new teams and play better and suddenly be a guy teams want. No the return probably won't be huge but I can see possible path to his value increasing.

2. The bar isn't high but I think it's likely he is an upgrade over Layman and possibly Juancho if nothing else just because he is a good shooter. I think it's likely the Wolves trade one of these 3/4 guys in some sort of deal but Prince does seem like an upgrade.

3. Before this move the Wolves were restricted in being able to make any FA moves or even some trades. Now they can take back a little more salary in a deal and not have to worry about the Lux tax. That's not a small thing. Meanwhile the Wolves will have something more than the vet min to try and sign a FA to play next to Towns plus a possible starting opportunity. The Wolves just became a more attractive FA destination as they can actually offer more than peanuts to get a guy.

4. With this deal the Wolves did hurt their PG depth significantly. One positive is that it opens up minutes for other players. Even if the Wolves end up adding a vet backup PG that guy is likely to play fewer minutes than Rubio and quite frankly might be better as a backup than Rubio would have been. One concern I had after this season was whether or not Rubio was able to be an effective bench guy. Some players don't do as well playing fewer minutes and off the bench. I saw somewhere on Twitter that Finch said they want to expand Nowell's role on the team. I don't know what that looks like but I think it's a good idea. If one of the Wolves young players (Nowell, Bolmaro, Culver or even Wright) ends up getting playing time and shows he can play in some of the minutes Rubio would have played then this could add to the value of the move. That's a pretty uncertain thing but there are some various options and as I've said a few times I've really wanted to see Nowell actually get a shot to play.

5. The Wolves still have their collection of expiring contracts to make deals with.

6. With three 2nd round picks next year the Wolves could use one of those picks to offload salary or as a minor sweetener asset in a deal. I hope they keep the Wizards 2nd but if they were able to move Rubio and then traded a 2nd to save another 5 or million in salary to end up with the resources to basically have the full midlevel to sign a FA and also resign Vanderbilt...I wouldn't hate that.

All these are mostly small points but a few of them could matter if they go in the right direction. I feel pretty confident that Rosas is not done making moves and that doesn't scare me.

Good points, Monster. But I really see no net plus in replacing Ricky with Prince on the roster, other than providing Nowell and perhaps Culver with more opportunity to play. I agree that the opportunity for Nowell in particular is significant and I like it. But I think some on this Board undervalue Ricky based on his play the first half of last season. It's important to view his play during that period in the context of (1) the years leading up to last season, (2) his solid play the end of last season, and (3) his stellar play in this year's Olympics. Truth is, Ricky is a very solid NBA PG. Was he overpaid at $17M? Yes. But he's a very good backup PG. There's a reason teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Celtics were interested in acquiring him. He also had additional value to the Wolves as a sizable expiring contract and that value would have been even greater closer to the February trade deadline.

At the end of the day, this deal won't move the needle significantly in either direction for the Wolves. But I do like having the extra $4.8M to spend and I like the opportunity this deal might provide for Nowell.

I agree with all of that, Monster... looking at it this morning, the deal feels like a slight improvement overall, depending on what Rosas does with the financial flexibility and the add'l second rounder. The Wolves have not solved their PF problem.

Lip, it bugs me too that this deal doesn't seem to capture Ricky's value given how well he played before he came here, and how well he played toward the end of the season and into the olympics... not to mention his relationship with Edwards. But he's an older, expensive PG that doesn't shoot very well... maybe this was the best deal out there for him.

lipoli390 wrote:Good points, Monster. But I really see no net plus in replacing Ricky with Prince on the roster, other than providing Nowell and perhaps Culver with more opportunity to play. I agree that the opportunity for Nowell in particular is significant and I like it. But I think some on this Board undervalue Ricky based on his play the first half of last season. It's important to view his play during that period in the context of (1) the years leading up to last season, (2) his solid play the end of last season, and (3) his stellar play in this year's Olympics. Truth is, Ricky is a very solid NBA PG. Was he overpaid at $17M? Yes. But he's a very good backup PG. There's a reason teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Celtics were interested in acquiring him. He also had additional value to the Wolves as a sizable expiring contract and that value would have been even greater closer to the February trade deadline.

At the end of the day, this deal won't move the needle significantly in either direction for the Wolves. But I do like having the extra $4.8M to spend and I like the opportunity this deal might provide for Nowell.

As I said before the wolves are basically in the same position when it comes to the expiring contract game. Having more financial flexibility matters more than having Rubio making more money and like I said before there is a chance that Prince actually proves to be more valuable than just an upgrade over Layman.

If we are going to look at how Rubio played down the stretch (like you I think he will be more valuable this season) maybe it's worth looking at how McLaughlin played during that time also. He shot the ball well and was solid. I think there is a chance the Wolves actually see him as a solid backup PG that they can keep for cheap especially if they can make another move to open up a roster spot. I don't think adding Wright on a 2-way means they are moving on from Jmac. They had Higgins on a 2-way last year and they clearly wanted to keep McLaughlin. I think we have seen players like McLaughlin that people said were just whatever guys end up being legit NBA bench players like Ish Smith or TJ McConnell. Do I think Jmac is as good as Rubio or even close? No but I think it's possible especially as a bench player the gap in value may not be as significant as it could be first glance. The large gap is that we know Rubio can play with his flaws and I think most assume he will bounce back this season as he is playing well in the Olympics. McLaughlin isn't proven. I think McLaughlin could also have sort of a bounce back year after starting off slow last season as well. But even if McLaughlin isn't the guy there will likely be useful vet rotation level backups for the vet min the wolves could sign. I think it's possible McLaughlin will be just as good of a player as some of them and possibly be better than some of them. Watching Teague play a few games in the playoffs...well let's just say I think McLaughlin could have played just as well overall although Teague did have some moments...he also looked pretty bad at times. Jeff Teague is a pretty low bar but he is also an NBA Champion! :)

Below is the Rosas media availability after the draft. The biggest takeaways are that Rosas and Finch continue to say things that more than hint they are looking to get bigger. It's worth remembering Juancho played the 3 for Finch at times. A defensive center next to Towns seems like a legit option this offseason.

https://youtu.be/oobJ1WUti3Y

I appreciate the positive spin some of you are trying to put on this deal, but it keeps getting worse and worse the more I look into it. Rosas might call him a 3 and D guy...I would call him a kinda 3 and no D guy. His defense is inconsistent at best. He's reasonably athletic, so sometimes his on-ball defense can be adequate. But his team defense fits the profile that Rosas seems to love...constantly confused and out of position (hello DLO, hello Malik). He has been described as a "good shooter", but his career 3-point percentage is almost exactly the same as the 2021 league average. Doesn't that make him a "mediocre" shooter rather than a "good" shooter if you are only average? He is an abysmal rebounder...can you believe that 6'0" McKinley Wright averaged more RPG in college than 6'7" Prince! And he isn't even durable, averaging only 60 games a year during his career. So let's summarize who we got back in exchange for the guy who is currently scoring in Japan at a points per minute rate only exceeded by Luka Doncic.

Shooting: League average on 3's
Defense: 84th out of 88 PF's last season in DRPM...worse than Juancho!
Rebounding: Terrible, averaged fewer per game in college than a guy 7 inches shorter than him!
Durability: Only healthy 60 games a year.

Sorry guys, $4 million in cap space doesn't come close to making up for the above deficiencies. I'm probably late to the table on this, but Rosas needs to go.

Got to work down that bloated 30+ mil of dead salary we had last year. Saving 5 mil on a bench player is a start. Now if Rosas can ditch Culver and Juancho we will be moving in the right direction.

monsterpile wrote:

lipoli390 wrote:Good points, Monster. But I really see no net plus in replacing Ricky with Prince on the roster, other than providing Nowell and perhaps Culver with more opportunity to play. I agree that the opportunity for Nowell in particular is significant and I like it. But I think some on this Board undervalue Ricky based on his play the first half of last season. It's important to view his play during that period in the context of (1) the years leading up to last season, (2) his solid play the end of last season, and (3) his stellar play in this year's Olympics. Truth is, Ricky is a very solid NBA PG. Was he overpaid at $17M? Yes. But he's a very good backup PG. There's a reason teams like the Lakers, Clippers and Celtics were interested in acquiring him. He also had additional value to the Wolves as a sizable expiring contract and that value would have been even greater closer to the February trade deadline.

At the end of the day, this deal won't move the needle significantly in either direction for the Wolves. But I do like having the extra $4.8M to spend and I like the opportunity this deal might provide for Nowell.

As I said before the wolves are basically in the same position when it comes to the expiring contract game. Having more financial flexibility matters more than having Rubio making more money and like I said before there is a chance that Prince actually proves to be more valuable than just an upgrade over Layman.

If we are going to look at how Rubio played down the stretch (like you I think he will be more valuable this season) maybe it's worth looking at how McLaughlin played during that time also. He shot the ball well and was solid. I think there is a chance the Wolves actually see him as a solid backup PG that they can keep for cheap especially if they can make another move to open up a roster spot. I don't think adding Wright on a 2-way means they are moving on from Jmac. They had Higgins on a 2-way last year and they clearly wanted to keep McLaughlin. I think we have seen players like McLaughlin that people said were just whatever guys end up being legit NBA bench players like Ish Smith or TJ McConnell. Do I think Jmac is as good as Rubio or even close? No but I think it's possible especially as a bench player the gap in value may not be as significant as it could be first glance. The large gap is that we know Rubio can play with his flaws and I think most assume he will bounce back this season as he is playing well in the Olympics. McLaughlin isn't proven. I think McLaughlin could also have sort of a bounce back year after starting off slow last season as well. But even if McLaughlin isn't the guy there will likely be useful vet rotation level backups for the vet min the wolves could sign. I think it's possible McLaughlin will be just as good of a player as some of them and possibly be better than some of them. Watching Teague play a few games in the playoffs...well let's just say I think McLaughlin could have played just as well overall although Teague did have some moments...he also looked pretty bad at times. Jeff Teague is a pretty low bar but he is also an NBA Champion! :)

Monster - That's a really good analysis of JMac. It's consistent with my thinking. While I don't care for the Rubio deal, I don't believe it will leave a serious hole at the PG position. I've always been high on JMac and probably have a higher opinion of him than a lot of folks on this board. I truly believe he can be a good backup PG. But if he can't, there are or will be other reasonable options that will cost considerably less than $17M per year.