Minnesota Sports Forum

I dont see the progress is what makes me so upset. Will we win a game here or there on our athleticism, yes. But that is it. All our bug 3 you could argue get sticky fingers and they all resort to hero ball. Just move the basketball. We get by almost entirely on athleticism. Then on defense its like i literally see no effort from any of them. What happened to towns? Was such a defensive force in college and now looks absolutely clueless on defense. I just dont get it.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't get it, at least Towns was a willing passer last year. He simply will not pass the basketball anymore. It seems like his Dad has gotten in his head and he's playing for himself.

Cool, when he gets the Ball, not one player is making a move, making a cut, or trying to get open. How good would Kat be if Lavine or Wiggins were back cutting or running the court like Rip Hamilton did back in the day? It's flaccid basketball.

Might be another chicken or the egg thing. Do they not move because the pass never comes, or does the pass not come because they aren't moving. My belief is there is plenty of options to move the ball, it's just not happening. At a minimum he should be passing out of the post more often to open 3 point shooters, which I saw on multiple possessions tonight.

Great point. The persona of this team is really ugly and unfortunately game in and game out, you never know what you will get. Makes it tough to watch and be a fan of. Merry Christmas everyone, cheers from Oregon.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't get it, at least Towns was a willing passer last year. He simply will not pass the basketball anymore. It seems like his Dad has gotten in his head and he's playing for himself.

Cool, when he gets the Ball, not one player is making a move, making a cut, or trying to get open. How good would Kat be if Lavine or Wiggins were back cutting or running the court like Rip Hamilton did back in the day? It's flaccid basketball.

Might be another chicken or the egg thing. Do they not move because the pass never comes, or does the pass not come because they aren't moving. My belief is there is plenty of options to move the ball, it's just not happening. At a minimum he should be passing out of the post more often to open 3 point shooters, which I saw on multiple possessions tonight.

Great point. The persona of this team is really ugly and unfortunately game in and game out, you never know what you will get. Makes it tough to watch and be a fan of. Merry Christmas everyone, cheers from Oregon.

Good to hear your perspective Slim. Thanks for taking the time.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:I don't get it, at least Towns was a willing passer last year. He simply will not pass the basketball anymore. It seems like his Dad has gotten in his head and he's playing for himself.

Cool, when he gets the Ball, not one player is making a move, making a cut, or trying to get open. How good would Kat be if Lavine or Wiggins were back cutting or running the court like Rip Hamilton did back in the day? It's flaccid basketball.

Might be another chicken or the egg thing. Do they not move because the pass never comes, or does the pass not come because they aren't moving. My belief is there is plenty of options to move the ball, it's just not happening. At a minimum he should be passing out of the post more often to open 3 point shooters, which I saw on multiple possessions tonight.

Great point. The persona of this team is really ugly and unfortunately game in and game out, you never know what you will get. Makes it tough to watch and be a fan of. Merry Christmas everyone, cheers from Oregon.

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

slimcalhoun27 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:

I agree. I think you've summed up the situation really well from the fan perspective.

I think Towns is the biggest mystery on this team this year. He was the main reason I predicted us making the leap into the playoffs and instead he is the one player who seems to be regressing. I guess he set the bar so high with one of the best rookie seasons for a big in a while but we will not be a playoff team this year or in the near future if he keeps playing this way.

It's like every player think it's their job to win the game and they need to drag everyone else with them to victory. How do they watch tape of this garbage and not realize they are losing because they are all trying to win the game on their own?

crazysauce wrote:I dont see the progress is what makes me so upset. Will we win a game here or there on our athleticism, yes. But that is it. All our bug 3 you could argue get sticky fingers and they all resort to hero ball. Just move the basketball. We get by almost entirely on athleticism. Then on defense its like i literally see no effort from any of them. What happened to towns? Was such a defensive force in college and now looks absolutely clueless on defense. I just dont get it.

I don't get it either, Crazy. And it's frustrating the hell out of me! Part of the sticky fingers is that I often don't see guys getting open. I don't see consistent, aggressive sharp cuts by buys off the ball. I don't see guys making intelligent use of screens. Etc. It's a combination of things, but it's all beyond frustrating. To not be showing improvement by this point in the season and actually regressing from last season is totally unacceptable. I'm done trying to assess blame between players and coaches. They're all to blame and ultimately it's the organization.

You have to make the defense move as the ball handler. You can't just stand there and expect someone to get open. The ball handler needs to draw the second defender before that pass actually becomes open. A post up 15ft from the rim in the triple threat position doesn't draw an extra defender so any movement should be blocked by the defender that should be between his man and the basket. Kanter didn't just stand there waiting for people to get open. He actually posted his guy up and backed down to the hoop forcing the extra defender opening up the pass. Our post up plays from Wiggins and Towns rarely draw an extra defender so there is nowhere to pass the ball. We just have no ability to pressure the defense into poor position while also not being able to make the right pass in that situation anyway. It feels like most possessions we settle for what they wanted us to do in the first place.

Kahns -- Interesting take because I repeatedly see Towns doubled down low. What frustrates me and people around me at Target Center is that Towns holds the ball long enough for the double team to come. Sometimes he tries to pass out of the double team and sometimes he tries to score one on two. Either way, his best move would be the one he doesn't make and that's a quick move to the basket before the double team arrives.

So far this season I've gotten the sense that Towns is trying to do what he's being coached to do, which appears to be instruction to wait for the double team and then pass to an open 3-point shooter or cutter. So I think he's trying to do what Thibs wants him to do, but he's not confident enough that he has open guys to pass to except maybe Ricky but we all know he's not a particularly good target out of the double team. Note the large number of turnovers so far this season, many of them intercepted passes, including passes out of the post.

The execution just isn't there on anything approaching a consistent basis. I suspect it's a combination of things and not just one or two players. My main concern remains the defensive end. Ricky couldn't even slow Westbrook down tonight and our other defenders were losing track of Thunder players without the ball, which led to way too many Thunder alley-oops. We could really use a defensive forced like a DeAndre Jordan in the middle. And against certain PGs like Westbrook, Ricky just can't hack it. Tonight I would have had Wiggins guard Westbrook. Thibs will have to make defensive adjustments like that against certain PGs. I do look forward to seeing more playing time for Dunn. I do love his defense.

lipoli390 wrote:Kahns -- Interesting take because I repeatedly see Towns doubled down low. What frustrates me and people around me at Target Center is that Towns holds the ball long enough for the double team to come. Sometimes he tries to pass out of the double team and sometimes he tries to score one on two. Either way, his best move would be the one he doesn't make and that's a quick move to the basket before the double team arrives.

So far this season I've gotten the sense that Towns is trying to do what he's being coached to do, which appears to be instruction to wait for the double team and then pass to an open 3-point shooter or cutter. So I think he's trying to do what Thibs wants him to do, but he's not confident enough that he has open guys to pass to except maybe Ricky but we all know he's not a particularly good target out of the double team. Note the large number of turnovers so far this season, many of them intercepted passes, including passes out of the post.

The execution just isn't there on anything approaching a consistent basis. I suspect it's a combination of things and not just one or two players. My main concern remains the defensive end. Ricky couldn't even slow Westbrook down tonight and our other defenders were losing track of Thunder players without the ball, which led to way too many Thunder alley-oops. We could really use a defensive forced like a DeAndre Jordan in the middle. And against certain PGs like Westbrook, Ricky just can't hack it. Tonight I would have had Wiggins guard Westbrook. Thibs will have to make defensive adjustments like that against certain PGs. I do look forward to seeing more playing time for Dunn. I do love his defense.

They weren't doubling Towns tonight that much I know. They let him go at Adams and Sabonis and Kanter and he lit them up early. Then he started getting further and further away from the basket as the game went on starting to face up more and settle for jumpers rather than keep his position on the block and make a move so that by the time the 4th rolled around he was just standing around at 15ft looking for a pass that was never going to open up because he wasn't drawing an extra defender and then backing his man down way too far from the bucket to get a good look.