GDT: Minnesota vs. Memphis

[Lipoli390]

FNG - I think you've provided appropriate balance to my more positive and optimistic thread. As you noted, a 7-9 record isn't all that impressive when you consider that we've played the softest part of our schedule and have remained amazingly healthy. But I think that disappointing win total can be attributed substantially to the uncharacteristically poor shooting we've seen from Beasley, Russell and Prince thus far. History tells us those three players will shoot significantly better going forward and they've already shown signs of breaking out of their respective slumps the past three games. And I have to believe that McDaniels will shoot the ball better going forward as well. As long as the defense continues to shine, the Wolves with the better shooting we can expect them to beat better teams. Unfortunately, I don't see the 46-win team I was predicting, but I do see the Wolves as a .500 team.

My biggest concern right now is Patrick Beverley's health. As you noted and as we'll all aware, Beverley hasn't proven to be a particularly durable player over the course of his career and he is clearly crucial to the defense and attitude of this team. I don't know what we can do about that because I don't see another player who can step up and do what he does for this team. Perhaps Bolmaro can step in and provide some of what Beverley provides later this season. Otherwise, it will be a collective effort with Vando, Okogie and Edwards compensating for the high-energy defense we'll lose when Beverley's out.

My other major concern remains our lack of size and rebounding. Unlike Beverley's durability issues, the size/rebounding issue is within the organization's control. There are players the organization can sign or trade for who would significantly address that issue and we wouldn't have to give up much to get them. We could sign Giles or Cousins right now to a minimum contract. As I mentioned in another thread, I'd like to see the Wolves trade for Moses Brown and I don't think they'd need to give up a key player or future 1st to get him. I can see the Wolves trading for Robin Lopez after trade restriction expires on Dec. 14. He's a role player. Moreover, Orlando is in total rebuild mold and doesn't really need him. Therefore, it shouldn't take much to get him. To match salaries and avoid the luxury tax, the Wolves would probably have to part with both Nowell and Layman to get him. I think Lopez would fit well. He has size and is a fierce competitor. Otherwise, I'd still prefer to deal Nowell and a future 2nd for Brown.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

The Wolves have shown that they can beat bottom feeding teams, but how are they going to fare once they start playing winning teams? Of our 7 wins, only one has been against a team with a winning record...and even that team (Bucks) was beat up and is only 9-8.

You know, sometimes I wonder if you're really a fan of this team, FNG. I think there's a difference between "providing balance" and maintaining your never-ending pessimism. Anyways, here's some context on several of Minnesota's losses, including those against good opponents, that easily could have gone the other way. Perhaps those will be wins later in the season.

10/30: vs. Denver (93-91, L) -- Minnesota led by four entering the fourth quarter and lost the lead with 2:04 left in the game. The Wolves were the better team that night although they let the win slip away late.

11/1: vs. Orlando (115-97, L) -- Again, Minnesota led by four entering the fourth quarter without D'Angelo Russell, who even you would concede has been a significant contributor, before absolutely unraveling and uncharacteristically allowing 43 points in the quarter.

11/8: at Memphis (118-125, L) -- Minnesota led by 11 entering the fourth quarter and only lost the lead with 32-seconds left in regulation. Once again, the Wolves were the better team all night, but simply could not close out the win.

11/15: vs. Phoenix (99-96, L) -- Minnesota traded the lead in this one the entire game. The Suns at full strength did not overwhelm the Wolves. The Suns had won eight consecutive games before getting into a dogfight at Target Center. The Wolves led by one with 1:28 left in the game before Phoenix snuck out with the win.


This team doesn't lack high-level talent, but they are young, inconsistent, and still learning how to finish games. Any of those four games I mentioned above could have gone the other way and I'd hope your sentiment would be much different. We'll learn a lot more about this team over the next month, but I think there's plenty to be excited about even at 7-9.

You've maintained that you don't think this team will make the playoffs, but they've underperformed and are still sitting in the 10-seed (one game out of the eight-seed). What everyone needs to realize is that in order to make the play-in tournament the Wolves have to be better than the Rockets, Pelicans, Spurs, Kings, and Thunder. If you don't think that's achievable or even likely, then I don't know what to tell you. Follow another sport.

[Lipoli390]

Dane Moore noted that last night's game was only the 38th in which Towns, DLO and Edwards have played together. He also noted that the KAT/DLO/Edwards trio has a combined 91.1 defensive rating so far this season. So while there's no doubt about Beverley's positive impact, we shouldn't overlook the defensive improvement of Towns, DLO and and Edwards, which might be due in part to Beverley's presence.

I think FNG's more negative perspective was fair. But my pushback is that at least some if not all those close games Cam mentioned would have likely gone the Wolves' way if Beasley, DLO or Prince had been shooting close to their career averages. The fact that all three were shooting far below their career averages at the same time until the last couple games was really bad luck and I believe it made a huge difference. I'll also note that this team is still learning to play together as they haven't been playing together very long.

I don't want to sugar-coat this team's deficiencies and they clearly have a lot to prove. But we shouldn't let our justifiable negativity as Wolves fans cloud out judgment about the team we have now. This team has a lot of talent. I'd say it is far more talented than the Rockets, Spurs and Thunder. I'd say it's also at least slightly more talented than the Pelicans, Kings and Grizzlies. Based on talent, this team shouldn't finish lower than 9th in the West. Barring some bad injury luck, I'll expect no less than that from this team given the talent we have. That will get them into the play-in tournament, but I'd hate to count on that tournament for a playoff birth. The question then in my mind is what other team can the Wolves pass to secure at playoff spot? Blazers? Lakers? Clippers? Mavs?

[FNG]

The Wolves have shown that they can beat bottom feeding teams, but how are they going to fare once they start playing winning teams? Of our 7 wins, only one has been against a team with a winning record...and even that team (Bucks) was beat up and is only 9-8.

You know, sometimes I wonder if you're really a fan of this team, FNG. I think there's a difference between "providing balance" and maintaining your never-ending pessimism. Anyways, here's some context on several of Minnesota's losses, including those against good opponents, that easily could have gone the other way. Perhaps those will be wins later in the season.

10/30: vs. Denver (93-91, L) -- Minnesota led by four entering the fourth quarter and lost the lead with 2:04 left in the game. The Wolves were the better team that night although they let the win slip away late.

11/1: vs. Orlando (115-97, L) -- Again, Minnesota led by four entering the fourth quarter without D'Angelo Russell, who even you would concede has been a significant contributor, before absolutely unraveling and uncharacteristically allowing 43 points in the quarter.

11/8: at Memphis (118-125, L) -- Minnesota led by 11 entering the fourth quarter and only lost the lead with 32-seconds left in regulation. Once again, the Wolves were the better team all night, but simply could not close out the win.

11/15: vs. Phoenix (99-96, L) -- Minnesota traded the lead in this one the entire game. The Suns at full strength did not overwhelm the Wolves. The Suns had won eight consecutive games before getting into a dogfight at Target Center. The Wolves led by one with 1:28 left in the game before Phoenix snuck out with the win.


This team doesn't lack high-level talent, but they are young, inconsistent, and still learning how to finish games. Any of those four games I mentioned above could have gone the other way and I'd hope your sentiment would be much different. We'll learn a lot more about this team over the next month, but I think there's plenty to be excited about even at 7-9.

You've maintained that you don't think this team will make the playoffs, but they've underperformed and are still sitting in the 10-seed (one game out of the eight-seed). What everyone needs to realize is that in order to make the play-in tournament the Wolves have to be better than the Rockets, Pelicans, Spurs, Kings, and Thunder. If you don't think that's achievable or even likely, then I don't know what to tell you. Follow another sport.

Cam, if being a wildly optimistic, poor prognosticating Pollyanna is what one has to be to be considered a "fan of this team", Cam, then I'll have to agree with you that I am not a fan. But what you deem "pessimistic", some of us here deem "realistic". It seems to me that my takes this year have been considerably more realistic than yours. Take the first 10 games for instance. You posted that this team could go 8-2 or at least 7-3. I replied that I agreed the schedule looked quite soft, but that this team hadn't shown me yet that they knew how to win...so I said 5-5 at best. Well, it turns out that despite being as healthy as I've seen the Wolves in years and playing a lot of injured teams, we went 4-6. You have predicted 42 wins this season. I don't know how frequently NBA teams improve by 19 wins (or 16, if you adjust last year to 82 games), but I suspect it's quite rare. I predicted 35, and lo and behold, with about 1/5 of the season gone (and as others have mentioned, likely the easiest segment of the schedule we will see all year, the Wolves are on pace to win...35.875 games! If being .875 wins short on my prediction means I am a pessimist, I plead guilty as charged.

You state that we only have to beat 5 very bad teams in order to sneak into the playoffs, and I can see where you are coming from with that. But OkC is only a game behind us despite playing a much tougher schedule, and I see the Pelicans as being better than us if Zion comes back. So I'm still skeptical of our Wolves making the playoffs despite the ineptitude of some of the West teams. But making the playoffs is not how I define success this season. If we beat out 5 bad teams and sneak into the playoffs only to get our asses handed to us, I don't know if that will make me feel much better about this franchise. What I want to see is improvement in this roster that gets us to 35 wins (an impressive 12 win improvement over last year) and continued better defense...those two things will satisfy me and keep me watching games. And while I think we can perhaps get more than 35 wins if we stay relatively healthy, history tells me it's not very realistic (there's that nasty word again ;) ) to expect guys like PatBev and DLo (certainly two of our most important players so far this season) to stay healthy.

One thing that puzzles me though is how offended (or "huffy" as Abe would humorously describe it) you get when a poster here provides a take that is different than yours. If someone insults DLo, you act as if they've taken a shot at your mother! Or if someone has the audacity to suggest that we should be better than 7-9 after playing some injured teams while we have been extraordinarily healthy, they are accused of not being a fan of the team. I can assure you that I am a Wolves fan and have been one for a long time. And I also hope every season that this will be the year. But I recognize that "hope" is different from "expectations" and I'm also a realist, and I fear that a team whose signature win 16 games into a season is beating a team with 2 starters out and a 9-8 record, perhaps doesn't have the makings of a successful team.

It's not personal, Cam. I may have smiled privately when I read your 8-2 (or 7-3 at worst) prediction for the first 10 games, and may have made an off-hand comment to my honey about the charming naivety of youth, but I didn't take it as a personal offense to my character that your prediction was vastly different than mine. One of us will prove to be right, and one of us will prove to be wrong...but being wrong doesn't make either of us a bad person, and we shouldn't have to take it as a personal affront if someone has a different take than ours. Isn't that what we do here...throw out opinions and share our thoughts about where this team is going? Why does huffiness have to enter into the discussion when we're just a bunch of devoted fans talking about what's good and bad about our team?

So having said all that, I respectfully ask to be reinstalled back into the ranks of Wolves fandom.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

As usual, you missed the point, FNG. I'm further convinced that reading comprehension might not be considered a strength of yours. Perhaps it's your age catching up to you. Perhaps we speak on two different wavelengths.

There's a difference between being optimistic and enjoying success in the moment. The latter of which should be easy. This is what I recently found to be an issue for you. That's what led me to ask if you're actually a fan of this team, which is why we're all here in the first place. The Wolves just won by the second-largest margin of victory in franchise history and won their third game in a row as they make their climb back to .500, but yet it seems like you'd rather suggest that Minnesota's incapable of competing with teams that have winning records in order to push your view that the Wolves won't make the playoffs or win more games than you projected. You also attempted to take away from the Wolves win against the reigning NBA champions, which comes off as weird to me. The timing is suspect at best and pessimistic at worst. Fuck your negativity. There's enough of that surrounding this franchise as it is.

FNG, I just don't enjoy your takes or your personality here. I think you overestimate your own intellectual capability on certain topics, you view things through a distorted lens, and you refuse to acknowledge when you're wrong on anything. I think you internally want the Wolves to win 20 games so you can have your weird moment of glory to say, "I told you so." You're just an odd fan to interact with. I'm done with it.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

As usual, you missed the point, FNG. I'm further convinced that reading comprehension might not be considered a strength of yours. Perhaps it's your age catching up to you. Perhaps we speak on two different wavelengths.

There's a difference between being optimistic and enjoying success in the moment. The latter of which should be easy. This is what I recently found to be an issue for you. That's what led me to ask if you're actually a fan of this team, which is why we're all here in the first place. The Wolves just won by the second-largest margin of victory in franchise history and won their third game in a row as they make their climb back to .500, but yet it seems like you'd rather suggest that Minnesota's incapable of competing with teams that have winning records in order to push your view that the Wolves won't make the playoffs or win more games than you projected. You also attempted to take away from the Wolves win against the reigning NBA champions, which comes off as weird to me. The timing is suspect at best and pessimistic at worst. Fuck your negativity. There's enough of that surrounding this franchise as it is.

FNG, I just don't enjoy your takes or your personality here. I think you overestimate your own intellectual capability on certain topics, you view things through a distorted lens, and you refuse to acknowledge when you're wrong on anything. I think you internally want the Wolves to win 20 games so you can have your weird moment of glory to say, "I told you so." You're just an odd fan to interact with. I'm done with it.

Wowzers. Strong stuff here Cam. I think FNG is likely secure enough as a person that he'd be pretty OK with the Wolves doing quite well, counter to his prediction. I also don't think FNG is out of bounds with anything he said. It's great that you're optimistic and you lay out coherent reasons as to why, but are you trying to tell us that there is absolutely no room for someone to stand by a more pessimistic prediction!? Remember, this is the Wolves we're talking about! It was only a week or so ago that they lost 6 straight!

[kekgeek]

As usual, you missed the point, FNG. I'm further convinced that reading comprehension might not be considered a strength of yours. Perhaps it's your age catching up to you. Perhaps we speak on two different wavelengths.

There's a difference between being optimistic and enjoying success in the moment. The latter of which should be easy. This is what I recently found to be an issue for you. That's what led me to ask if you're actually a fan of this team, which is why we're all here in the first place. The Wolves just won by the second-largest margin of victory in franchise history and won their third game in a row as they make their climb back to .500, but yet it seems like you'd rather suggest that Minnesota's incapable of competing with teams that have winning records in order to push your view that the Wolves won't make the playoffs or win more games than you projected. You also attempted to take away from the Wolves win against the reigning NBA champions, which comes off as weird to me. The timing is suspect at best and pessimistic at worst. Fuck your negativity. There's enough of that surrounding this franchise as it is.

FNG, I just don't enjoy your takes or your personality here. I think you overestimate your own intellectual capability on certain topics, you view things through a distorted lens, and you refuse to acknowledge when you're wrong on anything. I think you internally want the Wolves to win 20 games so you can have your weird moment of glory to say, "I told you so." You're just an odd fan to interact with. I'm done with it.

Wowzers. Strong stuff here Cam. I think FNG is likely secure enough as a person that he'd be pretty OK with the Wolves doing quite well, counter to his prediction. I also don't think FNG is out of bounds with anything he said. It's great that you're optimistic and you lay out coherent reasons as to why, but are you trying to tell us that there is absolutely no room for someone to stand by a more pessimistic prediction!? Remember, this is the Wolves we're talking about! It was only a week or so ago that they lost 6 straight!

I like FNG takes, even though we are the game differently and I disagree with him a lot. Haha. Just want to get it out there.

[FNG]

FNG, I just don't enjoy your takes or your personality here. I think you overestimate your own intellectual capability on certain topics, you view things through a distorted lens, and you refuse to acknowledge when you're wrong on anything. I think you internally want the Wolves to win 20 games so you can have your weird moment of glory to say, "I told you so." You're just an odd fan to interact with. I'm done with it.

[Coolbreeze44]

Q, Kek, and anyone else who regularly contributes to this board: Why can't we all be honest here when it comes to Camden? He is so far out of bounds in this discussion it's ridiculous. Why can't anybody say that? Why do we have to pussy-foot around things when he's clearly acting out of line? FNG has been a breath of fresh air to this forum. A much needed breath of fresh air. Do you realize that Cam, CAM, actually accused HIM of not being able to acknowledge when he's wrong? I realize that Cam is responsible for about 35% of the posts on the board, but a lot of you have enabled his behavior on this board for too long. The last time we had a schism like this, Cam left the board for a period of months. I believe it was this past spring and into the early summer. I would say the discussion on this board was as good as it's been in a long time during that period. "Fuck your negativity"? No one puts up with that type of posting from anyone else, why does this serial offender get a pass?

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Q, Kek, and anyone else who regularly contributes to this board: Why can't we all be honest here when it comes to Camden? He is so far out of bounds in this discussion it's ridiculous. Why can't anybody say that? Why do we have to pussy-foot around things when he's clearly acting out of line? FNG has been a breath of fresh air to this forum. A much needed breath of fresh air. Do you realize that Cam, CAM, actually accused HIM of not being able to acknowledge when he's wrong? I realize that Cam is responsible for about 35% of the posts on the board, but a lot of you have enabled his behavior on this board for too long. The last time we had a schism like this, Cam left the board for a period of months. I believe it was this past spring and into the early summer. I would say the discussion on this board was as good as it's been in a long time during that period. "Fuck your negativity"? No one puts up with that type of posting from anyone else, why does this serial offender get a pass?

I'm not sure you should be saying anything in regards to board decorum. You'd be gone long ago.