Minnesota Sports Forum

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Seems pretty relevant right about now... especially after reading this thread (I only watched about the first 15 minutes of the game.)

http://www.startribune.com/ryan-saunders-rips-into-andrew-wiggins-timberwolves-after-team-loses-seventh-game-in-row/567219622/

Brings up the questions...

- Should we take it as a positive that Saunders got into Wiggins and held him accountable... and assume everything is fixed?
- Should we take it as a negative that the difference between "good" and "bad" Wiggins swings on something like that... and is THAT noticeable?

Great question. I saw a tweet what was pretty much just because Andrew dominated the 2nd half dosen't excuse his play in the 1st half.

I have a feeling Wiggins will have a career like Jeff Green. Where he will get multiple GM's fired for not being consistent. Then late in his career in a lesser role will go off in a random important playoff game and change the series like Green did for Cleveland in the ECF

Interesting quote from Shabazz Napier: "This team is so used to KAT and Wigs doing all the work that when it doesn't happen, we just stand around. That's how it is. It sucks to say that but we just gotta find ways to help them guys out."

kekgeek1 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Seems pretty relevant right about now... especially after reading this thread (I only watched about the first 15 minutes of the game.)

http://www.startribune.com/ryan-saunders-rips-into-andrew-wiggins-timberwolves-after-team-loses-seventh-game-in-row/567219622/

Brings up the questions...

- Should we take it as a positive that Saunders got into Wiggins and held him accountable... and assume everything is fixed?
- Should we take it as a negative that the difference between "good" and "bad" Wiggins swings on something like that... and is THAT noticeable?

Great question. I saw a tweet what was pretty much just because Andrew dominated the 2nd half dosen't excuse his play in the 1st half.

I have a feeling Wiggins will have a career like Jeff Green. Where he will get multiple GM's fired for not being consistent. Then late in his career in a lesser role will go off in a random important playoff game and change the series like Green did for Cleveland in the ECF

Some people predicted a Jeff Green like career a long time ago...

As a Celtics fan, that Jeff Green experience made me especially upset.

As for Wiggins... check out these splits:

1st half
1 - 4 fg
0 - 2 ft
3 points
0 reb
3 asts
4 TOs

2nd half
9 - 15 fg
22 points
5 reb
6 asts
1 TO

That's absurd. And personally, the only way it won't be seen as the biggest indictment against Wiggins yet is if it leads to a transformation FOR THE REST OF THE SEASON.

One half isn't enough. Two games isn't enough. Two weeks isn't enough.

The man has coasted for far too long in his 6-year career... in part... on our dime. Wolves fans are helping to pay for his malaise. No more patience.

Could this be a watershed moment for this organization?


[Note: I'm sure it's not the first time Wiggins has been yelled at. I think the difference here is that the moment was documented... and maybe... meant to be documented by the press.[

Hes done this to wiggs a couple of times already this season, but am wondering why he doesnt do this to kat regarding his defense? Kat had a demonstrative hissy fit when sent to the bench after his 4th foul, so i winder if maybe kat is really sensitive to being confronted and thats why saunders wont do it.

crazy-canuck wrote:Hes done this to wiggs a couple of times already this season, but am wondering why he doesnt do this to kat regarding his defense? Kat had a demonstrative hissy fit when sent to the bench after his 4th foul, so i winder if maybe kat is really sensitive to being confronted and thats why saunders wont do it.

I think the answer is simple. Wiggins is a mediocre to good basketball player who struggles with focus but has a coachable personality. KAT is a great basketball player with a flaky, uncoachable personality.

Neither is an alpha in my opinion. But I don't see Rosas starting from scratch, even though that's what he needs to do.

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Hes done this to wiggs a couple of times already this season, but am wondering why he doesnt do this to kat regarding his defense? Kat had a demonstrative hissy fit when sent to the bench after his 4th foul, so i winder if maybe kat is really sensitive to being confronted and thats why saunders wont do it.

I think the answer is simple. Wiggins is a mediocre to good basketball player who struggles with focus but has a coachable personality. KAT is a great basketball player with a flaky, uncoachable personality.

One of Andrew's problems is lack of focus, intensity and effort. He often just doesn't seem to care. KAT's problem on defense isn't lack of intensity, effort or interest. His problem is the lack of any defensive acumen at all. His basketball IQ defensively is extremely low. He also lacks a level of toughness you need to defend the paint in the NBA. You can scream at Wiggins and sometimes motivate him to play hard, in which case he'll play better. No matter how much you scream at KAT, he won't become smarter. Hopefully over time some things will sink into his skull and result in better defense from him.

lipoli390 wrote:

thedoper wrote:

crazy-canuck wrote:Hes done this to wiggs a couple of times already this season, but am wondering why he doesnt do this to kat regarding his defense? Kat had a demonstrative hissy fit when sent to the bench after his 4th foul, so i winder if maybe kat is really sensitive to being confronted and thats why saunders wont do it.

I think the answer is simple. Wiggins is a mediocre to good basketball player who struggles with focus but has a coachable personality. KAT is a great basketball player with a flaky, uncoachable personality.

One of Andrew's problems is lack of focus, intensity and effort. He often just doesn't seem to care. KAT's problem on defense isn't lack of intensity, effort or interest. His problem is the lack of any defensive acumen at all. His basketball IQ defensively is extremely low. He also lacks a level of toughness you need to defend the paint in the NBA. You can scream at Wiggins and sometimes motivate him to play hard, in which case he'll play better. No matter how much you scream at KAT, he won't become smarter. Hopefully over time some things will sink into his skull and result in better defense from him.

I think KAT's ego gets in his way. If you asked him today Im sure he would think he's the best defender in the league. Im not sure he's nearly as smart as he pretends to be. Jimmy yelled at KAT and he pouted and stopped trying last season. I dont get the sense that KAT has any more of the focus, intensity or effort. Otherwise he'd be a better defender. The fact that there has been no improvement in KAT's game in 5 years is troubling to me.

I think you guys are on track. I have seen too much too often KAT just jogging back on defense while the opposing center rim runs for an easy lay up. Just getting back on defense with actual running could improve his DRTG by 6 points.

KAT focuses on offense and rebounding, shots blocked, steals, etc. Things that are easily seen in the box score. Meanwhile he also led the league the last two seasons in fouls as well. So his technique is poor. He goes for the shot blocks instead of just walling up vertically, then rebounding.

I have no doubt the multitude of coaches have attempted to correct his flaws, but he refuses to listen and implement them, likely thinking he knows better (ego flaw).

WolvesFan21 wrote:I think you guys are on track. I have seen too much too often KAT just jogging back on defense while the opposing center rim runs for an easy lay up. Just getting back on defense with actual running could improve his DRTG by 6 points.

KAT focuses on offense and rebounding, shots blocked, steals, etc. Things that are easily seen in the box score. Meanwhile he also led the league the last two seasons in fouls as well. So his technique is poor. He goes for the shot blocks instead of just walling up vertically, then rebounding.

I have no doubt the multitude of coaches have attempted to correct his flaws, but he refuses to listen and implement them, likely thinking he knows better (ego flaw).

To be fair... he "earned" a max contract doing things his way. (also to be fair... it was a no-brainer)
And Wiggins also "earned" a max contract doing things his way.

This is part of my Players > Coaches argument. The best, the all-time great NBA players continue to improve. They learn from mistakes and show incremental growth. Doesn't matter if it's with Pat Riley or K.C. Jones or Mike Brown or Randy Wittman. Or even Kurt Rambis.

You can't coach pride. You can't coach competitiveness. You can't coach motivation.