Minny is too cold dlo @ wolves

[crazy-canuck [enjin:18955461]]

His floater game has changed everything at the rim, before it was spin move or euro-step every single time. A huge part is obviously our coaching staff and front office trying to phase out the mid-range game and making him drive more to begin with, but he has to be oozing confidence knowing that teams are trying to meet him at the rim to stop his old moves and he can just pull up for the 8-10 floater.

He is 10th in the nba for points in the paint. Doncic is the only other non big in the top 10.

Thats nuts.

[Lipoli390]

Last night was one of the most impressive games I've ever seen from Andrew Wiggins. Granted, the opponent was who it was (not very good), and the circumstances of Minnesota's point guard situation forced him to have to handle the ball more than ever, but it goes back to what I said in the last game thread -- it is the way in which he's playing that is making the difference. Had Wiggins scored 40 last night primarily by hoisting and making mid-range jumpers, I would not be talking about him the same way. You might read that and be asking yourself why and the reason I say that is because last night's version of Wiggins is repeatable. That player's shot selection and determination to attack and get to the hoop is repeatable. His success is more sustainable if he continues to play that way. If he regresses back into the volume scorer that settles for 18-20 foot jumpers, then he'll have disappointed us all once again.

I really hope that doesn't happen, though. This could just be one of those hot stretches for Wiggins, or he could finally be "getting it." Something just feels like it could different from just watching him. It's like he's just now understanding that he can get to the rim whenever he wants to. If the lightbulb has indeed gone off, that is the single-most significant storyline of this season and ultimately flips Minnesota's future from dim to bright once again.

For those that missed his performance, here are just some of his individual highlights: [youtube]https://youtu.be/inruSZcYlhA[/youtube]

Cam - This might be the best player analysis I've even seen posted on this Board. I think you nailed it with your reference to repeatability as the thing that distinguishes the positive stretch we've seen from Wiggins this season so far in contrast to positives stretches he's had in past seasons.

Wiggins still has too many lapses in intensity on the defensive end. But his overall impact on the offensive end - scoring, assists and the way he's playing - will put him in the all-star discussion if it continues.

[thedoper]

The shots for Wiggins start going in because of an even more aggressive approach about his shot selection and people stop talking about his motor. Strange. Those were some high motor layups and floaters last night i guess.

To be fair, he still has his moments where he takes plays off that he shouldn't. Jim Pete was even going to highlight one specifically in the Memphis game before the video crew played the wrong clip. And while his rebounding looks to be the same as ever, he's actually having a career year statistically (small sample size, of course) on the glass. That's almost entirely due to his eight and six rebound games, admittedly, but it's something.

Lack of hustle stats are also more stomachable when the player in question is devoting that energy to efficient scoring and playmaking -- something we don't often see from Wiggins, which means he should be impacting the game in other areas to compensate. I think that was always the gripe to begin with.

So your gripe was not that Wiggins didnt have a motor, but that he was using it incorrectly? This is getting quite nuanced now that the shots are going in.

No, my gripes with Wiggins have been quite consistent. What I'm expressing to you is that deficiencies in a player's game are easier to accept, or more stomachable, if he is excelling in other areas of the game. That does not mean that the deficiencies were not real or aren't still real -- similar to Wiggins still having plays that he takes off.

Fans lessening their criticism on Wiggins' motor because he's scoring at a significantly higher efficiency level is exactly the same as fans being lenient about Kevin Love's defense because he was an elite scorer and rebounder. Or Steph Curry's defense being ignored because he's the greatest shooter of all-time. Or Ricky Rubio's jumper because he's a good facilitator and defender. The list goes on and on.

So it doesnt take a motor to score efficiently, but that's acceptable since it's good to score efficiently? Is a fair summary?

The lapses in Wiggins performance have always been there regardless of the terminology and reasoning people apply to it. I think the strategic decision to engage his strengths by the coaching staff is benefiting the team and his performance. He had evidence of "hustle" and "basketball iq" under Thibs too, but the situational emphasis made it difficult for output in traditional hustle categories. Under Thibs was at the top of the league in 3 pointers defended because his defensive role was to push the primary ball handler to the ice and circle back to the shooter. This role would have been impossible to match with rebounding (the great hustle stat everyone loves to cite) even though he marginally improved in that area. Klay Thompson has had a very similar defensive role and consequently has shitty rebounding numbers yet is regarded as a great defender which I believe is as much a reflection of having draymond behind him as it is of his own defensive impact on a team system.

I love how the coaches are using his hustle, motor, and basketball iq now on the offensive end(7 assists as the primary ball handler is something I didnt even expect last night). Hope he keeps up the performance and likewise our team defense tightens up, better defines a system, and plays to Wiggins athleticism on that end.

[Lipoli390]

The shots for Wiggins start going in because of an even more aggressive approach about his shot selection and people stop talking about his motor. Strange. Those were some high motor layups and floaters last night i guess.

To be fair, he still has his moments where he takes plays off that he shouldn't. Jim Pete was even going to highlight one specifically in the Memphis game before the video crew played the wrong clip. And while his rebounding looks to be the same as ever, he's actually having a career year statistically (small sample size, of course) on the glass. That's almost entirely due to his eight and six rebound games, admittedly, but it's something.

Lack of hustle stats are also more stomachable when the player in question is devoting that energy to efficient scoring and playmaking -- something we don't often see from Wiggins, which means he should be impacting the game in other areas to compensate. I think that was always the gripe to begin with.

So your gripe was not that Wiggins didnt have a motor, but that he was using it incorrectly? This is getting quite nuanced now that the shots are going in.

No, my gripes with Wiggins have been quite consistent. What I'm expressing to you is that deficiencies in a player's game are easier to accept, or more stomachable, if he is excelling in other areas of the game. That does not mean that the deficiencies were not real or aren't still real -- similar to Wiggins still having plays that he takes off.

Fans lessening their criticism on Wiggins' motor because he's scoring at a significantly higher efficiency level is exactly the same as fans being lenient about Kevin Love's defense because he was an elite scorer and rebounder. Or Steph Curry's defense being ignored because he's the greatest shooter of all-time. Or Ricky Rubio's jumper because he's a good facilitator and defender. The list goes on and on.

Cam - I agree with you completely. The one thing I'll add is that I see a far more consistent motor from Wiggins on the offensive end. He seems far more consistently engaged on that end of the floor than he has been the past several seasons. His continuing lapses in intensity that I've seen this season so far have been limited largely to the defensive end. But credit him for more consistent energy and intensity as well as smarter play on the offensive end. I'll add that, in spite of his lapses in intensity on the defensive end, he's actually improved on that end as well - as evidenced by his 3 blocks last night. He's hustling defensively in ways I've rarely seen before.

I fear we're being set up for a huge let down by Wiggins as we have in the past. But like you, I sense something is different this time - something different in his approach to the game as well as his commitment. He seems to be more serious, more zoned in and more integrated into the team than I've even seen him before. He also seems more confident. Among other things, I think Wiggins really likes Ryan and wants to please him. And as Doper pointed out, our new coaching staff is making far better use of Wiggins' talents. I also think that Wiggins might have finally grown tired of the ridicule as he finally looks like a guy who cares and wants to be respected as a great player.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

They are 20-20 from the line, we are 9-16 from the line. There is your difference. That's just shitty luck.

Yuck.
But a win.

- Wiggins was great. Good to see this stretch. What a tease that guy is... the best!

- The Wolves will be changing a lot of faces. There's simply not enough talent on the team.

- But that doesn't mean watching Okogie can't be fun. Sort of trainwrecky... but fun. Covington doing his bit when needed was good, too.

- Damn. That Warriors team sucks balls. This would have been a BAD loss.

- Obviously, Russell was great. Awesome. But even with that career performance, he opens himself up for criticisms. Those are tough, tough shots he was hitting. He's incredible at hitting those tough shots... but it's not going to happen every night or for full games very often. So that's where the lack of efficiency comes into play.

Yeah, Russell was not very good this year until he played us and if you look at his career, he just isn't very efficient because he's a streaky, volume shooter that doesn't get to the line or make a high enough percentage of 3's.

I was a little disappointed in our defensive strategy against him and I put the blame on the coaches. I know that we are trying to play drop coverage in order to protect the rim and force teams to take more mid-range shots and floaters - generally lower percentage plays. But Russell is not known for being able to blow by guys and get to the rim, so I don't know why KAT wasn't hard hedging on those screens right away.

If this team is ever going to be a legitimate playoff team (vs. squeaking in as a 7th or 8th seed), they need to do better than this.

[worldK]

Another positive for wig was that he had zero turnovers last night. He easily could have 12 assists if his teammates where hitting open 3's in his kick outs. That was impressive. He doesn't make flashy passes but he has make the simple and correct passes each time.

I agree with cam that his recent stretches feel different and certainly repeateable. It wasn't him getting hot from mid range and 3's that you know he will cool off eventually. It is him attacking the rim and increasing his 3pt volume while limiting his mid range attempts significantly. Even in the games he shot poorly, he was attacking the rim and making shots at the rim in the clutch.

Coaching makes a difference in a players development. The player on his part has to buy in to make it work. Ryan looks like the right coach for wig due also to the trusts and relationship they have. Hopefully wig continue to play this style going forward. If he can get his ft's to 75% and his 3's to 38% and continue to attack the rim, limit mid range shots, play with effort on d and improve his passing then we are looking at a all star caliber and highly efficient player.

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Let me remind folks that in Wiggins' first couple years, 30% or more of his shots came from 0-3 feet (more than this season by the way) and he made a living at the free throw line. Unfortunately, he gradually got away from attacking the paint and became more and more passive over the past few seasons. At least now when he's passive, he's "settling" for 3s versus long 2s. That is indeed a real improvement, even though his shot is still inconsistent. But he's always had the ability to get to the basket when he puts his mind to it.

He's had a nice resurgence these last few games, but I need to see it sustained a LOT longer before declaring some sort of corner has been turned. Great game though.

[Monster]

The differences Insee from Wiggins that I have seen that are different than the guy we have seen the past couple years:

That step back 3 looks like a legit move. He did it sometimes before but he looks to have it down. I'm not saying it's awesome or he is gonna wreck the league with it but it looks pretty polished before it looked closer to rudimentary.

Wiggins midrange shots now tend to be more like working out of post ups. Previously a lot of his mid range shots were the maddening attack a guy and pull up a couple dribbles inside the arc. Now he tends to get deeper and then takes a fall away shot that looks to have more flow and rhythm to it. Players tend to shoot worse on pull ups I'm not sure about fall away jumpers. If anyone wants to pull up some numbers on this and the type is shots Wiggins is taking this year compared to last year I would be interested in seeing them.

Change of speed. Wiggins does look to have a better handle but Inthink some of it is the last few games he has been using more than one speed. lol guys then explode with a crossover maybe even a hesitation at times. Before he seemed to either fly at the rim or just be slow, plan to take a jumper before even doing anything or flat out looking like he was going to do something make a specific move and when it didn't work out...he was screwed. Some of the credit should he going to him but I also think this coaching staff is putting him in better positions at times.

Like others it feels like there might be something real and remember how terrible this guy looked in preseason?!?!?

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

The differences Insee from Wiggins that I have seen that are different than the guy we have seen the past couple years:

That step back 3 looks like a legit move. He did it sometimes before but he looks to have it down. I'm not saying it's awesome or he is gonna wreck the league with it but it looks pretty polished before it looked closer to rudimentary.

Wiggins midrange shots now tend to be more like working out of post ups. Previously a lot of his mid range shots were the maddening attack a guy and pull up a couple dribbles inside the arc. Now he tends to get deeper and then takes a fall away shot that looks to have more flow and rhythm to it. Players tend to shoot worse on pull ups I'm not sure about fall away jumpers. If anyone wants to pull up some numbers on this and the type is shots Wiggins is taking this year compared to last year I would be interested in seeing them.

Change of speed. Wiggins does look to have a better handle but Inthink some of it is the last few games he has been using more than one speed. lol guys then explode with a crossover maybe even a hesitation at times. Before he seemed to either fly at the rim or just be slow, plan to take a jumper before even doing anything or flat out looking like he was going to do something make a specific move and when it didn't work out...he was screwed. Some of the credit should he going to him but I also think this coaching staff is putting him in better positions at times.

Like others it feels like there might be something real and remember how terrible this guy looked in preseason?!?!?

All players go through peaks and valleys. He's currently in a peak and we can't judge him based on a few good or great games. We'll see if it is sustained. I do think he can outperform his last couple of miserable years, but I'm still skeptical that he's turned some sort of career corner. May be he gets back to his 2nd or 3rd year level of production....we'll see.