Minnesota Sports Forum

This team is soft. Any team gets at all physical we start hoisting up jumpers. When you got guys like lavine and wiggins they should be getting to the rim all the time and even when not making the shot our bigs should be there to rebound. But our bigs are camped out at the free throw line or the three point line. I want to see us attacking much more and finishing with dunks with these guys. I dont even recognize towns this year. He looks much worse than last year.

And last i really question the effort of these guys. I cant stand watching these guys sit there and watch the other team get an offensive board or beat one of our guys and they just stand there and watch them go up without contesting. Lavine and Wiggins especially but have seen others as well. When i ball, i go balls to the wall. These guys get millions and look like there just out there trying to get their numbers so they can cash in on there next payday rather than trying to help their team win. Not to mention them just pulling up for junpshots early in the shot clock rather than trying to get to the hoop and get the easy ones. And there committment to defense..... ha. Guess that doesnt show up in your stats so why bother.Oh how i miss basketball from the 80s and 90s eras. Unfortunately too many out there concerned about stats instead of winning.

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but it looks like another complete melt down in the 3rd quarter. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I mean, this happens almost every game! And it's the same rotation that usually gets us off to terrific 1st quarter starts.

Kinda reminds me of that Love led team that couldn't win a 4th quarter game.

I think that is a great comparison. Love that year had a horrible dip in his 4th quarter shooting and started taking way more 3s in the 4th. Thibs has been right on with his assessment of the cause. This team turns selfish after the half. Wiggins had the hot hand after starting 1-7 and Zach and Towns went down the toilet, much like Love would go down the toilet in the 4th quarter for us. Egos need to go out the door.

While Love struggled... and virtually everybody struggled in the 4th quarter as the team lost something insane like its first 8 or 9 or 13 games decided by 4 or fewer points...

It's disingenuous to rip Love without ripping the PGs.

The stats overwhelmingly support this take. Both shot under 30%. And Rubio went something like a month without scoring a 4th quarter field goal. This isn't a post to blame them... only to absolve Love of the brunt of the blame.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:

thedoper wrote:

TheSP wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but it looks like another complete melt down in the 3rd quarter. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I mean, this happens almost every game! And it's the same rotation that usually gets us off to terrific 1st quarter starts.

Kinda reminds me of that Love led team that couldn't win a 4th quarter game.

I think that is a great comparison. Love that year had a horrible dip in his 4th quarter shooting and started taking way more 3s in the 4th. Thibs has been right on with his assessment of the cause. This team turns selfish after the half. Wiggins had the hot hand after starting 1-7 and Zach and Towns went down the toilet, much like Love would go down the toilet in the 4th quarter for us. Egos need to go out the door.

While Love struggled... and virtually everybody struggled in the 4th quarter as the team lost something insane like its first 8 or 9 or 13 games decided by 4 or fewer points...

It's disingenuous to rip Love without ripping the PGs.

The stats overwhelmingly support this take. Both shot under 30%. And Rubio went something like a month without scoring a 4th quarter field goal. This isn't a post to blame them... only to absolve Love of the brunt of the blame.

Oh shit man I thought our point guards sucking that year was a given. I just can't remember the last time a PG shot decently for this team. I guess the same goes for this team.

My point is more on the decision making and performance of the stars of the team. Then it was Love, now it's KAT,Wiggins and Lavine. Teams go as their star players go. Right now ours aren't playing as a team.

Q12543 wrote:

TheSP wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but it looks like another complete melt down in the 3rd quarter. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I mean, this happens almost every game! And it's the same rotation that usually gets us off to terrific 1st quarter starts.

Kinda reminds me of that Love led team that couldn't win a 4th quarter game.

Yes, that was a team whose point differential belied its record, meaning they really should have won 47 or 48 games that year. But in that case, I would attribute some of those close losses to bad luck (the Gerald Green heavily contested corner 3, etc.) and a weak bench that gave up leads.

In this year's case, it's the same freakin' starting 5 that gets off to good 1st quarter starts. The other team consistently comes out with more energy and defensive intensity and we crumple up and go into the fetal position.

Currently Wolves are really duplicating their 2013-14 success as only team with less to 50% win rate even tough they have positive net rating. Currently Wolves have +2.5 net rating that is clearly better than what Rockets, Blazers, Thunder or Lakers have. When sample size is small, net rating gives typically more accurate prediction about team's success in remaining games. So this gives at least some hope for me that Wolves would eventually be able to get some success later this season.

Q12543 wrote:

Mstermisty wrote:I missed this one thankfully, and no need to watch the replay as I've already seen the game several times this season. 3rd quarter meltdown again. Unreal. 72 more to go. Let me know when Thib's defense arrives. KAT ten 3 attempts? Really?

KAT needs to get his ass in the post and run more PnR with Rubio - where he's actually rolling and going down hill. 10 3's and zero free throws!

But at the end of the day, he should stop worrying about his offense and just let it come to him. Defense is where he needs to step up. HIbbert, Zeller, and Kaminsky scored 43 points on us tonight!

It wasn't just those 43 points that hurt Wolves but even more the fact that threesome of HIbbert, Zeller and Kaminsky scored them with 71.2 TS%.

Mikkeman wrote:

Q12543 wrote:

TheSP wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I only caught bits and pieces of the game, but it looks like another complete melt down in the 3rd quarter. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before? I mean, this happens almost every game! And it's the same rotation that usually gets us off to terrific 1st quarter starts.

Kinda reminds me of that Love led team that couldn't win a 4th quarter game.

Yes, that was a team whose point differential belied its record, meaning they really should have won 47 or 48 games that year. But in that case, I would attribute some of those close losses to bad luck (the Gerald Green heavily contested corner 3, etc.) and a weak bench that gave up leads.

In this year's case, it's the same freakin' starting 5 that gets off to good 1st quarter starts. The other team consistently comes out with more energy and defensive intensity and we crumple up and go into the fetal position.

Currently Wolves are really duplicating their 2013-14 success as only team with less to 50% win rate even tough they have positive net rating. Currently Wolves have +2.5 net rating that is clearly better than what Rockets, Blazers, Thunder or Lakers have. When sample size is small, net rating gives typically more accurate prediction about team's success in remaining games. So this gives at least some hope for me that Wolves would eventually be able to get some success later this season.

Unbelievable. This is the type of bizarre quirk that ONLY happens to a Minnesota team. It's amazing that it's happening to us again with a completely different regime.

thedoper wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wolves-radio/post16_thibs_1115

Thibs is pissed. I like him. I think this team deserves it. I think any coach would have struggled with this team at first. Long term they are going to be better off from this.

It is interesting how a lot of his wrath is directed at the offense, even though we are the 4th rated offense in the NBA right now!

I think his point is that poor offensive execution leads to open floor situations for the other team, which they invariably turn into a layup or open 3-pointer.

But here is what he is really saying in my opinion: He is basically admitting that the defense is so bad that there is literally no room for error. We can't afford bad offensive quarters because the defense is so fragile that unless we made a basket on the other end of the floor, we have no hope of stopping anyone.

thedoper wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wolves-radio/post16_thibs_1115

Thibs is pissed. I like him. I think this team deserves it. I think any coach would have struggled with this team at first. Long term they are going to be better off from this.

Well, I didn't listen to all of it (stopped playing half way through), But I for one am relieved to hear that our third quarter collapses have nothing to do with the coaching...I was concerned for awhile that perhaps Thibs' approach might be having a negative impact on the team, but he clearly says this is all about the players' failures, and not about the coaching. They need to change, they're not learning, they keep making the same mistakes...yep, it's the players, not the coaches. Thibs...keep doing what you're doing, and maybe they'll eventually figure it out.

longstrangetrip wrote:

thedoper wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wolves-radio/post16_thibs_1115

Thibs is pissed. I like him. I think this team deserves it. I think any coach would have struggled with this team at first. Long term they are going to be better off from this.

Well, I didn't listen to all of it (stopped playing half way through), But I for one am relieved to hear that our third quarter collapses have nothing to do with the coaching...I was concerned for awhile that perhaps Thibs' approach might be having a negative impact on the team, but he clearly says this is all about the players' failures, and not about the coaching. They need to change, they're not learning, they keep making the same mistakes...yep, it's the players, not the coaches. Thibs...keep doing what you're doing, and maybe they'll eventually figure it out.

You may be right about Thibs, but the reality is that he's going nowhere. If things don't improve, he'll need to get the type of players that do respond to his coaching style and have the guts to fight back and get physical when defenses tighten up in 3rd quarters. We have no Butlers or Noahs on this team.

Q12543 wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

thedoper wrote:https://soundcloud.com/wolves-radio/post16_thibs_1115

Thibs is pissed. I like him. I think this team deserves it. I think any coach would have struggled with this team at first. Long term they are going to be better off from this.

Well, I didn't listen to all of it (stopped playing half way through), But I for one am relieved to hear that our third quarter collapses have nothing to do with the coaching...I was concerned for awhile that perhaps Thibs' approach might be having a negative impact on the team, but he clearly says this is all about the players' failures, and not about the coaching. They need to change, they're not learning, they keep making the same mistakes...yep, it's the players, not the coaches. Thibs...keep doing what you're doing, and maybe they'll eventually figure it out.

You may be right about Thibs, but the reality is that he's going nowhere. If things don't improve, he'll need to get the type of players that do respond to his coaching style and have the guts to fight back and get physical when defenses tighten up in 3rd quarters. We have no Butlers or Noahs on this team.

Yeah, I know he's here for awhile, and I'm optimistic enough to still think that's a good thing...he's been a proven winner, and clearly understands the game. But whatever he is doing now doesn't seem to be working. My optimism is based on the fact that he is a smart guy, and has to be pondering why the team is failing immediately after they get to spend 15 uninterrupted minutes with him and his staff. Unless he possesses a stubbornness and arrogance greater than his predecessor, he needs to question what his role is in these collapses, and make adjustments to his style that can get the most out of his roster.

I listened to Mitch Berger on the radio talking about Blair Walsh yesterday, and the conversation morphed into coaching. He said something that I truly believe...coaching success often has more to do with psychology than x's and o's. You need to get inside the heads of your players and figure out what motivational tools work best and what style may stifle their natural ability, and you need to understand that one size doesn't fit all...different styles are needed for different players, or rosters. The brilliance of this team in the first half of almost every game still has me excited about the future...they consistently look like a top 5 team in first halves. It's incumbent upon Thibs, not the players, to figure out why almost every third quarter is a disaster.