Minnesota Sports Forum

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:BTW, for anyone not catching any of the Bucks-Raptors series, Ibaka is still my #1 FA target...

Even at 4+ yrs at around 25 mil per, I.e. Around Horford $. Personally, I don't want to see our team pay him more than 20 mil per.

I still haven't wrapped my mind around these new contracts. I think I would rather pay a lesser player a lot of money for 2 years than lock up a guy for a near max for 4 years but again I don't know what the willingness is to go into the lux tax. It SEEMS from what I have heard it sounds like Glen is more likely to go there than a few months ago.

monsterpile wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:BTW, for anyone not catching any of the Bucks-Raptors series, Ibaka is still my #1 FA target...

Even at 4+ yrs at around 25 mil per, I.e. Around Horford $. Personally, I don't want to see our team pay him more than 20 mil per.

I still haven't wrapped my mind around these new contracts. I think I would rather pay a lesser player a lot of money for 2 years than lock up a guy for a near max for 4 years but again I don't know what the willingness is to go into the lux tax. It SEEMS from what I have heard it sounds like Glen is more likely to go there than a few months ago.

Would you expect him to as early as 2018 ( or 2019?) given what we have proven thus far? I expect him to wait, but even signing a guy like Ibaka would have us more competitive and likely leads to more profits for Glen. As a fan who wants to see a.title I'm just not convinced that it is our best path to actually competing for that.

TheFuture wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

60WinTim wrote:BTW, for anyone not catching any of the Bucks-Raptors series, Ibaka is still my #1 FA target...

Even at 4+ yrs at around 25 mil per, I.e. Around Horford $. Personally, I don't want to see our team pay him more than 20 mil per.

I still haven't wrapped my mind around these new contracts. I think I would rather pay a lesser player a lot of money for 2 years than lock up a guy for a near max for 4 years but again I don't know what the willingness is to go into the lux tax. It SEEMS from what I have heard it sounds like Glen is more likely to go there than a few months ago.

Would you expect him to as early as 2018 ( or 2019?) given what we have proven thus far? I expect him to wait, but even signing a guy like Ibaka would have us more competitive and likely leads to more profits for Glen. As a fan who wants to see a.title I'm just not convinced that it is our best path to actually competing for that.

To me it seems like the last few years was Glen was willing to spend if the players he was gonna get were actually worth spending a bunch of extra money for. If not he didn't seem willing to and to be honest the way things have played out...that made plenty of sense. If you were an owner would a guy like Ibaka be a guy that you felt would be worth paying for?

The other question I have is whether the culture Thibs and Layden will allow for really overpaying guys or if they are going to try and see if they can make this more of a Spurs culture where guys give up a little money to win. I'm a homer but I could see any of the Wiggins, Towns Lavine guys doing that but certainly not expecting it to happen. Wiggins is the first domino if he would take a million bucks a year less or something that would make a statement. I'm not holding my breath but if you want to build something like that you aren't going to give Ibaka near max money for 4 years right?

The Wolves can't afford to just lay back like they did last year when they didn't get Gasol or Deng. They kinda have to get a Patrick Patterson type proven vet fringe starter. I wonder if they will be more aggressive looking for that type of player this offseason especially if they think there is a chance they keep Bazz on some sort of reasonable deal which would eat into some of their cap but would also potentially give them a nice bench player.

One other thing to consider is that the Wolves have a possible trade chip in a Jordan Hill. His salary for next season is guaranteed June 30 so if a team wanted to dump some salary player to the Wolves (who are below the salary floor still) the Wolves could absorb a player who could be useful and maybe even get a pick or cash or some used basketballs. I don't have any players in mind but teams always seem to be interested in dumping players so they can load up for crazy max offer contracts and sometimes they pay well to do that. I'm not holding my breath for a crazy awesome deal or anything but that's kinda the type of deal that brought Diaw to the Jazz.

What kind of impact did Ibaka have on the Raptors this year? I look at that team where they were last year in the playoffs and compare it to the current unit. Is he really worth a huge deal that's going to limit your flexibility moving forward?

CoolBreeze44 wrote:What kind of impact did Ibaka have on the Raptors this year? I look at that team where they were last year in the playoffs and compare it to the current unit. Is he really worth a huge deal that's going to limit your flexibility moving forward?

More damning to me is the lack of impact he had defensively on Orlando. They actually got worse from the year prior.

Admittedly, I haven't watched Ibaka with Orlando or Toronto. May be the eye test suggests that he's still a top defender, but the stuff on paper doesn't show him to be the top notch defender he perhaps once was with OKC a few years ago.

CoolBreeze44 wrote:What kind of impact did Ibaka have on the Raptors this year? I look at that team where they were last year in the playoffs and compare it to the current unit. Is he really worth a huge deal that's going to limit your flexibility moving forward?

This year is the year we have flexibility. And the only way to maintain it is to lock a free agent in. We lose all flexibility as soon as Wiggins gets a max extension. The time is now while we have the space, because we aren't going to have any once these kids get paid.

Q12543 wrote:

CoolBreeze44 wrote:What kind of impact did Ibaka have on the Raptors this year? I look at that team where they were last year in the playoffs and compare it to the current unit. Is he really worth a huge deal that's going to limit your flexibility moving forward?

More damning to me is the lack of impact he had defensively on Orlando. They actually got worse from the year prior.

Admittedly, I haven't watched Ibaka with Orlando or Toronto. May be the eye test suggests that he's still a top defender, but the stuff on paper doesn't show him to be the top notch defender he perhaps once was with OKC a few years ago.

He's not the rim protector he once was. But he showed a new side of effective defender last year in the playoffs vs. GSW when he was switching onto guys all over the court of various sizes.

The Orlando situation was a mess. They were extremely good early on defense. They lagged on D later in the year. I think it was part of a concerted effort to improve a woeful offense... and something had to give defensively to do it. Plus, it was a badly formed team. They were created to play bully ball in a pace and space league. Dumb.

As for his impact in Toronto... I don't know the stats. But I do know the team went 14 - 7 down the stretch without its best player in the lineup.

Personally, I don't think he's worth $25+M... but he's still a very good complementary player.

I just gotta say -- and I haven't ventured into this topic lately -- that anyone spending any time on advanced stats should be scared shitless on Wiggins. That guy has made little to no improvement in so many areas in which he is already a subpar player. Indicators do not support he is on some all-star, let alone hall-of-fame, trajectory.

And we are considering maxing this guy out?!?

Playing the "youth card" is the only reason we would continue holding out hope. But as yet another year goes by, the mounting data does not support our hope. I tend to fall on the optimistic side, but the only hope I can find is that Thibs offseason plans for Wiggins produces some results next year...

No thanks on Ibaka. All advanced statistics show he does not make his teams better. And for $25 million? Nope.