Minnesota Sports Forum

I am not happy about the minutes Thibs is playing the starters, but other than that I'm not worried about the coaching. If there is one person in the entire Wolves organization that has accomplished something in the NBA before, it is Thibs.

Right now I'd rank the Wolves top issues as follows:

* Since they play bad defense, they cannot stop runs. And since they know they play bad defense, they get really tight offensively during runs. They look like they think they have to make every shot because they know they are not getting a stop on the other end.

* Players let their offensive struggles demotivate them in other areas of their game. Wiggins and LaVine seem especially prone to this. They need to keep defending, rebounding, and passing whether they are making shots or not.

* Team lacks tough-minded and "strong for their position" players. When Boston was down, guys like Horford, Smart, and Thomas looked ticked off and ready to take it back. Conversely the Wolves looked like "Oh shoot I hope I don't blow this." The physical strength will come over time, but I feel like the mental toughness might be something you either have or you don't.

* Team plays differently on offense when things are going poorly. They devolve into one-on-one hero ball.

* No bench. This contributes to the issue of too many minutes for the starters. The bench plays poorly for a few minutes, they make mistakes, Thibs pulls them. To be fair, it is tough to get into too much of a groove and prove yourself. But I think players like Baz feel like they need a bunch of minutes to show Thibs how many points they can score. This is NOT what Thibs is looking for IMO. He wants to see them come in, play defense, execute the game plan, and not make stupid mistakes.

Solutions:

* Wolves really need Dunn to become a functional NBA player. He has the physical strength and confident demeanor that could help. Giving the team 25 strong PG/SG minutes off the bench would help a lot.

* Trade for better bench players. Try to find a team that is willing to give up functional veterans for either cap room or younger prospects. This won't happen until December at the earliest. I would look for struggling teams that might realize in December that they need to rebuild: DAL, MIA, ORL, SAC, DEN? I'd also look at POR as they have too many guys that need minutes; they resigned everyone in order to have trade pieces.

* Our starters have to learn to play hard in all aspects of the game even if their shot is not dropping that day.

* Commit to playing noone more than 35 MPG. The bench is not going to improve without consistent minutes and role.

I tend to agree with LST. I don't believe the in-game minutes are the problem for our starters. What's the difference between 35 and 38 minutes? 10 trips up and down the court? These guys are used to playing multiple games in a day for their AAU teams just a few years ago. I'm wondering what the off days are like and whether these guys are having any fun playing the game.

Nice post, Coyote. It is frustrating seeing this team take its lumps, and it takes away how well the team is playing for the majority of the game. I am confident that everyone will "figure it out" (both coaches and players). I just hope it is sooner than later!

longstrangetrip wrote:I agree with you about Wig, Cam...I was so optimistic about him just 4-5 days ago, but his last two games have been way too remindful of the lackadaisical Wig that we have seen now and then. He needs to learn that true superstars (which I think he can become) know how to bring it every night.

But I do lay the 4th quarter disaster on Thibs...for the 8th or 9th time this season, he was outcoached, albeit by a great young coach in Stevens. Stevens understands that fresh players win close games, and by playing his stars 10 minutes less than Thibs played his, the difference in energy and quickness in the 4th quarter was vividly on display...Boston won every 50/50 play, and was the far better coached team last night. Yes, Thibs did call some good timeouts in the 4th, but he also left a very tired, underperforming team on the court when everyone could see they were getting their asses handed to them. Where was Belly? Resting on the bench with his 10 points in 10 minutes...ridiculous.

That's not exactly fair either. Boston actually has a bench that can perform.

Pick your poison, if Thibs had played our starters 8 mins less throughout the game we would be down by 15 entering the 4th quarter.

TheFuture wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I agree with you about Wig, Cam...I was so optimistic about him just 4-5 days ago, but his last two games have been way too remindful of the lackadaisical Wig that we have seen now and then. He needs to learn that true superstars (which I think he can become) know how to bring it every night.

But I do lay the 4th quarter disaster on Thibs...for the 8th or 9th time this season, he was outcoached, albeit by a great young coach in Stevens. Stevens understands that fresh players win close games, and by playing his stars 10 minutes less than Thibs played his, the difference in energy and quickness in the 4th quarter was vividly on display...Boston won every 50/50 play, and was the far better coached team last night. Yes, Thibs did call some good timeouts in the 4th, but he also left a very tired, underperforming team on the court when everyone could see they were getting their asses handed to them. Where was Belly? Resting on the bench with his 10 points in 10 minutes...ridiculous.

That's not exactly fair either. Boston actually has a bench that can perform.

Pick your poison, if Thibs had played our starters 8 mins less throughout the game we would be down by 15 entering the 4th quarter.

Are you suggesting that Boston's bench is better than ours? If that is true, who bears the responsibility for having a bad bench...the GM who made offseason moves to create much of the bench, or the coach who isn't getting the most out of them? Either way, I'm not so sure why we are so quick to give Thibs a pass here. He was given one of the most attractive jobs in the NBA 6 months ago...a young roster filled with potential superstars and plenty of cap space to add complementary pieces. He already had a European star (Belly) and a lottery pick (Shabazz) on his bench, and he used his cap space to go out and acquire 3 backups who have been effective with other teams (Aldrich, Rush and Hill) and a top 5 draft pick old enough to contribute right away. I don't think anyone is going to confuse Boston's bench (Jerebko, Olynyk, Smart, Rozier and Brown) with the 1996 Bulls, but Stevens has coached them up and given them the court time to both develop and allow his starters to stay fresh. With as poorly as some of our starters were playing, I'm not buying your premise that we would have been down 15 entering the 4th quarter...the only 3 players with a positive +/- last night were reserves.

I was at the game last night and am pretty much at a loss right now with this team. They looked dominant for most of the game and then the "other" team showed up. I'm still hopeful they can turn it around, but that hope is fading.

longstrangetrip wrote:

TheFuture wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:I agree with you about Wig, Cam...I was so optimistic about him just 4-5 days ago, but his last two games have been way too remindful of the lackadaisical Wig that we have seen now and then. He needs to learn that true superstars (which I think he can become) know how to bring it every night.

But I do lay the 4th quarter disaster on Thibs...for the 8th or 9th time this season, he was outcoached, albeit by a great young coach in Stevens. Stevens understands that fresh players win close games, and by playing his stars 10 minutes less than Thibs played his, the difference in energy and quickness in the 4th quarter was vividly on display...Boston won every 50/50 play, and was the far better coached team last night. Yes, Thibs did call some good timeouts in the 4th, but he also left a very tired, underperforming team on the court when everyone could see they were getting their asses handed to them. Where was Belly? Resting on the bench with his 10 points in 10 minutes...ridiculous.

That's not exactly fair either. Boston actually has a bench that can perform.

Pick your poison, if Thibs had played our starters 8 mins less throughout the game we would be down by 15 entering the 4th quarter.

Are you suggesting that Boston's bench is better than ours? If that is true, who bears the responsibility for having a bad bench...the GM who made offseason moves to create much of the bench, or the coach who isn't getting the most out of them? Either way, I'm not so sure why we are so quick to give Thibs a pass here. He was given one of the most attractive jobs in the NBA 6 months ago...a young roster filled with potential superstars and plenty of cap space to add complementary pieces. He already had a European star (Belly) and a lottery pick (Shabazz) on his bench, and he used his cap space to go out and acquire 3 backups who have been effective with other teams (Aldrich, Rush and Hill) and a top 5 draft pick old enough to contribute right away. I don't think anyone is going to confuse Boston's bench (Jerebko, Olynyk, Smart, Rozier and Brown) with the 1996 Bulls, but Stevens has coached them up and given them the court time to both develop and allow his starters to stay fresh. With as poorly as some of our starters were playing, I'm not buying your premise that we would have been down 15 entering the 4th quarter...the only 3 players with a positive +/- last night were reserves.

I think everyone will agree Stevens is a pretty good coach. Most of the Celtics players have been in his system for a few years. Olynyk has played for 1 NBA coach and one GM. 2 guys from that same draft class Shabazz and Dieng have played for 3 coaches and are under their 2nd organizational change and when they came in it was Flip's first year on the job. That kind of stuff makes a difference espcially when you are talking about guys that probably aren't superstars almost no matter what happens around them.

I share the disappointment and exhaustion with this team's early struggles, but they've shown enough for the hope to still be strong.

The Wolves are 12th overall in Net Rating, which is pretty impressive considering how horrendous they've been in third quarters.

They're also No. 1 overall in Net Rating in the first half -- No. 1 Offensive Rtg, No. 5 Defensive Rtg. One might argue that Thibs' game preparation would have something to do with that, and I'm sure we can all agree that this team has executed well during the first two quarters so far this season. That's the key -- execution. On the other hand, they're 30th in Net Rtg in the second half -- No. 30 ORtg, No. 30 DRtg -- which is just a killer.

To me, the Wolves being dominant in first halves is reason enough to believe that Thibs' principles, system, and overall knowledge of the game isn't the problem. He didn't suddenly become a bad head coach who can't win. He is, however, coaching a team full of players in their early 20's who are, for the most part, inconsistent and haven't shown that they know HOW to win YET. They aren't executing when they need to.

It's also why some, including myself, wanted a legitimate veteran contributor (Horford, Deng, Bazemore, etc.) added to the team instead of league journeyman like Aldrich or even Rush. Simply put, they've been awful.

As the team gets more comfortable playing for Thibs and gains familiarity with his system and adjustments, I still believe the wins are going to come this season. We just have to be patient and hope this learning period doesn't last too long.

Camden wrote:I share the disappointment and exhaustion with this team's early struggles, but they've shown enough for the hope to still be strong.

The Wolves are 12th overall in Net Rating, which is pretty impressive considering how horrendous they've been in third quarters.

They're also No. 1 overall in Net Rating in the first half -- No. 1 Offensive Rtg, No. 5 Defensive Rtg. One might argue that Thibs' game preparation would have something to do with that, and I'm sure we can all agree that this team has executed well during the first two quarters so far this season. That's the key -- execution. On the other hand, they're 30th in Net Rtg in the second half -- No. 30 ORtg, No. 30 DRtg -- which is just a killer.

To me, the Wolves being dominant in first halves is reason enough to believe that Thibs' principles, system, and overall knowledge of the game isn't the problem. He didn't suddenly become a bad head coach who can't win. He is, however, coaching a team full of players in their early 20's who are, for the most part, inconsistent and haven't shown that they know HOW to win YET. They aren't executing when they need to.

It's also why some, including myself, wanted a legitimate veteran contributor (Horford, Deng, Bazemore, etc.) added to the team instead of league journeyman like Aldrich or even Rush. Simply put, they've been awful.

As the team gets more comfortable playing for Thibs and gains familiarity with his system and adjustments, I still believe the wins are going to come this season. We just have to be patient and hope this learning period doesn't last too long.

Great post Cam. I said earlier in the game thread there was no way Mitchell got us to the highs of performance we are seeing on this team now. They have moments of brilliance. They need to learn how to handle the pressure through experience. Without a veteran winner on the court that is hard to do. It is really extreme though to go from top 5 to last in the league in a team stat from one half to another.

The next time I get a job that pays me $7 million a year for going 4-9, I want you guys as my public relations staff!