Wolves vs Blazers GDT: quest for the 8th seed

[AbeVigodaLive]

trade Rubio

Wiggins is handling the ball and has five turnovers (actually should have been 6) and KAT is 0 from 6 from outside and he has a complete greenlight from there and why is Thibs ok with this? We should have blown out a Portland team without Lillard at home, but the gameplan is terrible. Its on the players too, but I really have been disappointed with Thibs game management.

what the fuck do you do at this point when teams literally have a player play centerfield against us, how do you coach around a PG that can't shoot at all? Teams are going to aggressively go after us on defense with doubles and traps like crazy now once they see this and there is nothing we can do to stop it, this isn't on Towns improving passing out of the doubles he can get better but Ricky has to go. Can any of you find me clips of another pg who was so ignored and let open to shot THAT bad on every play? It doesn't matter if it's a 3 or a 10 footer you can't win that way, we are seeing what any team we faced in a playoff game would do to us and it was brutal to watch

Ricky has consistently been our top plus guy every year until this year. Thibs is the X Factor. He's been a complete disaster so far. If we had the option of getting rid of Thibs, I would do that before getting rid of Ricky who's elite in every category for a point guard outside of Field goal shooting.

Legit question because I am curious about your opinion on this. Don't you think the wolves are capped out by running the ricky rubio style of offense (at best .500 ball) and don't you think it is smart to try something different (wiggins playmaker) even if it fails now or continues to fail if it has the potential to exceed the cap the ricky style has shown since being in the league even if it is not putting ricky in the best position to succeed

Meh.

I think it's too soon to make that call. Why be so rash? It's only been 6 seasons.

[AbeVigodaLive]

I missed this game thankfully...just another terrible loss when we could have gotten some positive momentum going on turning the season around. Again I feel like I'm moving towards apathy with this team. Figured this would be the year that would finally be avoided, but no such luck.

I've always been a Ricky supporter but he is having his worst season as a pro and it's alarming. But Dunn is moving in the right direction, and my guess is when the playoffs are out of reach Thibs will move Dunn into the starting spot and see if Ricky fits as the backup. Then if Dunn continues to improve he will start next year and either Ricky will accept a backup role or they will move him, which considering his reasonable contract it shouldn't be hard to get something of value back. The real question is whether Dunn will improve enough to even be better than this year's version of Ricky. He is showing signs, and I guess the hope is that when he moves into the starting lineup he will figure out how to be effective.

Regardless until these young guys learn how to play defense even somewhat consistently we have no chance of turning this thing around.

I was always frustrated because Rubio was basically on a plateau of development. Sure, people could point to one stat or another stat with enough searching... but in the end... he was essentially the same player in Year 1 as he was in Year 5. Almost identical in many ways.

And many questioned if it was time to move on. It hadn't proved sustainable for winning basketball games, advanced metrics be damned.

So we're in Year 6 and he's posting career worst stats. Is it by design (new coach) or has he regressed with his play? Is it just one of those crazy anomalies that happens with crappy teams like the Timberwolves.

Consider...

Is he already the longest tenured starting PG in team history?
How many other starting PGs have spent this much time with the same team?
More importantly, how many with as big of a vice as Rubio (shooting) and whose team hasn't had ANY success?

Is it all Rubio? Is it even 1/2 Rubio? I don't know if I even care at this point.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

Q, I can think of several clutch, or practically game-winning plays for each of our big three and I'll list them at the bottom, BUT that's not to discredit your argument in regards to Rubio. He has made *some* big plays when they're needed.

Just a thought, but I feel like there are a lot of Wolves fans that are just tired of seeing the same formula. Multiple potent scorers (Love, Pekovic, Martin, Young, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns) led by a non-scoring threat floor general (Rubio) and no rim protection (???). We have watched this formula for almost a decade and the results have been the same for whatever reason. I can say for myself that I fit this billet. As a fan/consumer and (educated) spectator of the sport, I'm just ready for a change. I find myself legitimately surprised and excited whenever Rubio makes a simple layup. While he does other things that I enjoy seeing, such as his passing, that feeling has just grown old for me.

Towns:

- Game-saving blocked shot to force overtime against Orlando.

- Game-winning right hook to beat Portland.

- Game-clinching layup to beat Golden State. Set the screen for Wiggins, slipped the screen when the double-team came, received the pass just inside the three-point line and attacked the basket. Converted and got fouled, made the free throw.

Wiggins:

- Game-winning assist to beat Oklahoma City last season. Attacked the paint, got Westbrook to collapse from the perimeter, kicked it out to Rubio right in the shooter's pocket and he drilled it. Gotta give Wiggins a lot of credit there.

- Game-winning and game-clinching buckets against Chicago last season. Post-up, right hand hook after a couple dribbles to re-take the lead with 1:30 left. Later, he got a loose ball, spun in the paint and got a layup to go to put us up once again. And then with about 0:20 left, he drilled a pull-up mid-range jumper going left to ice the game.

- Game-tying three-pointer earlier this season against Charlotte. Dribbled the ball from half court to the right slot and pulled up, nailed it.

LaVine:

- Down six, with under 1:00 left to play, he drilled back-to-back deep three-pointers to tie the game against Utah last season.

- Game-tying three-pointer against Washington last season. In overtime, LaVine with the ball at the top of the key, passed to Dieng at the left slot, got it right back, took a dribble and nailed the jumper over Gortat.

[Coolbreeze44]

Q, I can think of several clutch, or practically game-winning plays for each of our big three and I'll list them at the bottom, BUT that's not to discredit your argument in regards to Rubio. He has made *some* big plays when they're needed.

Just a thought, but I feel like there are a lot of Wolves fans that are just tired of seeing the same formula. Multiple potent scorers (Love, Pekovic, Martin, Young, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns) led by a non-scoring threat floor general (Rubio) and no rim protection (???). We have watched this formula for almost a decade and the results have been the same for whatever reason. I can say for myself that I fit this billet. As a fan/consumer and (educated) spectator of the sport, I'm just ready for a change. I find myself legitimately surprised and excited whenever Rubio makes a simple layup. While he does other things that I enjoy seeing, such as his passing, that feeling has just grown old for me.

Towns:

- Game-saving blocked shot to force overtime against Orlando.

- Game-winning right hook to beat Portland.

- Game-clinching layup to beat Golden State. Set the screen for Wiggins, slipped the screen when the double-team came, received the pass just inside the three-point line and attacked the basket. Converted and got fouled, made the free throw.

Wiggins:

- Game-winning assist to beat Oklahoma City last season. Attacked the paint, got Westbrook to collapse from the perimeter, kicked it out to Rubio right in the shooter's pocket and he drilled it. Gotta give Wiggins a lot of credit there.

- Game-winning and game-clinching buckets against Chicago last season. Post-up, right hand hook after a couple dribbles to re-take the lead with 1:30 left. Later, he got a loose ball, spun in the paint and got a layup to go to put us up once again. And then with about 0:20 left, he drilled a pull-up mid-range jumper going left to ice the game.

- Game-tying three-pointer earlier this season against Charlotte. Dribbled the ball from half court to the right slot and pulled up, nailed it.

LaVine:

- Down six, with under 1:00 left to play, he drilled back-to-back deep three-pointers to tie the game against Utah last season.

- Game-tying three-pointer against Washington last season. In overtime, LaVine with the ball at the top of the key, passed to Dieng at the left slot, got it right back, took a dribble and nailed the jumper over Gortat.

Post of the year material. Check out this year's "Coolies" to see how it rates.

[Mstermisty [enjin:6864008]]

The more we lose the more posters on this board become hyper-focused on railing their own agendas on what's wrong with this team. For one if Rubio gets traded I'm not sure what some posters are going to do, they may have to develop thoughts on a different topic.

Bottom line is at 11-23 for a team that was projected to play around .500 ball, a multitude of things have gone wrong. It's just starting to feel like a year where Thibs gets 82 games to institute his system and figure out how the players he has, for now, fit. I think next season we will see what players Thibs believes will work and what roles they will play. And maybe that's why we didn't spend much on free agents, because Thibs wanted to see where he was at first. It would be nice to see them start turning it around still this season, but at this point realistically it just might not happen, although there has been some signs of improvement as a group in the last 10 games or so.

[Coolbreeze44]

All this team needs is to cross that very thin line of playing consistently for 48 minutes. I hate to sound too optimistic, but if they just learn how to hold on to 10 point leads they would be a .500 team right now. It sucks for this year, but we are very talented and it's just a matter of time. I really believe that.

[Porckchop]

It's pretty natural to bring up Ricky when the team is losing since he remains the one constant thru all these losing seasons. Making excuses for Rubio over and over is no better than bitching about his flaws costing us games.

[BloopOracle]

It's pretty natural to bring up Ricky when the team is losing since he remains the one constant thru all these losing seasons. Making excuses for Rubio over and over is no better than bitching about his flaws costing us games.

didn't you hear? he was the best player on shitty teams multiple years!

[Q12543 [enjin:6621299]]

Q, I can think of several clutch, or practically game-winning plays for each of our big three and I'll list them at the bottom, BUT that's not to discredit your argument in regards to Rubio. He has made *some* big plays when they're needed.

Just a thought, but I feel like there are a lot of Wolves fans that are just tired of seeing the same formula. Multiple potent scorers (Love, Pekovic, Martin, Young, Wiggins, LaVine, Towns) led by a non-scoring threat floor general (Rubio) and no rim protection (???). We have watched this formula for almost a decade and the results have been the same for whatever reason. I can say for myself that I fit this billet. As a fan/consumer and (educated) spectator of the sport, I'm just ready for a change. I find myself legitimately surprised and excited whenever Rubio makes a simple layup. While he does other things that I enjoy seeing, such as his passing, that feeling has just grown old for me.

Towns:

- Game-saving blocked shot to force overtime against Orlando.

- Game-winning right hook to beat Portland.

- Game-clinching layup to beat Golden State. Set the screen for Wiggins, slipped the screen when the double-team came, received the pass just inside the three-point line and attacked the basket. Converted and got fouled, made the free throw.

Wiggins:

- Game-winning assist to beat Oklahoma City last season. Attacked the paint, got Westbrook to collapse from the perimeter, kicked it out to Rubio right in the shooter's pocket and he drilled it. Gotta give Wiggins a lot of credit there.

- Game-winning and game-clinching buckets against Chicago last season. Post-up, right hand hook after a couple dribbles to re-take the lead with 1:30 left. Later, he got a loose ball, spun in the paint and got a layup to go to put us up once again. And then with about 0:20 left, he drilled a pull-up mid-range jumper going left to ice the game.

- Game-tying three-pointer earlier this season against Charlotte. Dribbled the ball from half court to the right slot and pulled up, nailed it.

LaVine:

- Down six, with under 1:00 left to play, he drilled back-to-back deep three-pointers to tie the game against Utah last season.

- Game-tying three-pointer against Washington last season. In overtime, LaVine with the ball at the top of the key, passed to Dieng at the left slot, got it right back, took a dribble and nailed the jumper over Gortat.

Well done Cam! A few nit-picks....

KAT
- We lost the Orlando game.
- Yup, that's the one I remembered off the top of my head. Memorable play.
- We were already up by two and had possession, but yes, big play.

Wiggins
- Yes, great kick out to Rubio.
- On prior possession, Rubio went 2 for 2 from the line to get us within one, then Wiggins went to work.
- On prior possession, Rubio hit a 3-pointer to get us within one, then Wiggins went to work....then Rubio came up with the big defensive plays.

LaVine
- Honestly couldn't remember either of these games. Did we end up winning the Utah game?


What is unfortunate is that the vast majority of these examples, including one of mine for Rubio, happened last year.

My original point to Kahns was that Rubio has indeed had his hand in "game winning" plays. Given the role KAT, Wiggins, and LaVine play, they SHOULD have more opportunities than anyone else to win (or lose) games in the waning moments. Unfortunately, the list of game-losing plays in the waning moments would be a far longer list. But youth, different coach, new system, blah, blah, blah.....Yes, I know, patience.

[apollotsg [enjin:6592798]]

I have grown weary of watching Rubio as well. Our new offense appears to use the PG to bring the ball up and hit the 3 (which Rubio generally does not). I have missed only a handful of games the past 5 years, this offense is very different than anything we have run - like actually trying to setup 3s...what is that? Toward the end of last year I got the impression that the kids ended up doing what they wanted and Rubio orchestrated it which may have lead to the impressive offensive output. That also lead to near non-existent defense. Now we have a coach who wants to run a modern offense that requires more from our PG than dribbling around to the baseline and back out. Teams are playing Rubio different - they are actively rotating away from him to double Towns and Wiggins - this alone I suspect is the fundamental problem with our offense. If Rubio could consistently hit anything from anywhere I think we would be better, but he can't.

Defensively, I see a difference. It has not shown up yet in the box scores but I think it is coming. Like others have said - some of these guys have specifically said they have not even been taught some of the basics prior to Thibs - that seems shocking - I would like to wait until the end of next season to evaluate where we are.