Duke13 wrote:Listen to the first 20 minutes of this and tell me this doesn't get you excited. David Thorpe is one of the smartest basketball guys out there, he and Windhurst are drooling over this move. I like when Thorpe said we should take the slow approach with this roster.
http://m.espn.go.com/general/play?id=15281177
Thorpe thought it was smart, manages to insult the franchise before saying, "At worst you're getting a fantastic basketball coach that helps his players play better, play harder, play smarter, understand how to win, and that means as a team he wins games." Says Glen Taylor could/should be more reluctant to sell the team now that there's a high profile coach and "Hall of Fame talent" at multiple positions. Thorpe said this team, 2015-16 Wolves, would have been a playoff team this year with any legitimate coaching. I agree with that take.
Windhorst still sounds like Jonah Hill's second cousin. Wonders if we'll try to accelerate the movement and use some cap space. Basically, the same thing that Lowe talked about. Thorpe says that maybe Thibs will make some mistakes evaluating talent, but he's so damn good at coaching up talent that they'll play much better. He also says to get some cheaper talent this off-season in free agency and let Thibs coach them up better than they are (note: this follows the Bazemore/Turner level FA that I would really like). He also says that Wiggins has Kawhi Leonard type potential on defense, that he's a much better athlete than Leonard (agreed) and that it isn't even close. Says Rubio is top-three defensively for his position (agreed). Says Towns is gonna be an elite level center defensively and can play some four (duh). He could see Minnesota as a top-five defensive team in 2017, which I also agree with.
Windhorst says it'd be a mistake for the Bulls to move Jimmy Butler, but then presents the scenario of trading the No. 5 pick AND Zach LaVine for Butler, which will never happen because that's one-sided in favor of Chicago and Thibs isn't a dummy, nor is Layden. Windhorst thinks Dieng has "big time upside" and maybe you pair him with the pick for Butler. Also says he thinks it'd be interesting to see how negotiations would go with a Thibs-led Wolves and the Bulls. I'd be in favor of acquiring Butler, and I said I'd trade No. 3 + Shabazz Muhammad for him in a different thread, but there's no way I move LaVine for him.
Windhorst said that Thibs had been chasing this job for MONTHS. Thorpe says to stay patient and let Thibs coach up the talent that we have now. Not a bad take, but I say go get some more help and let's get in the playoffs and make some noise without blowing up the farm.
Windhorst and Thorpe were downright giddy about this move - almost to the point where I was saying, "slow down there boys!". And these are national guys!
In terms of "win now" versus "build for the future", when your best players are also your youngest players, I don't really see why it's not "both".
The one thing that could create some tension and bruise an ego or two is if Thibs goes and gets Butler or Deng. Because if he does that, LaVine is moving to 6th man and that will take some convincing for a guy on a rookie deal and headed into his 3rd year. Butler especially throws a stick in the spokes of our still-forming pecking order. Do you think Wiggins and KAT are going to suddenly want to defer a bunch of shots to Butler? And Butler probably views himself as a top dog somewhere. In Minnesota, he'll have a few dobermans nipping at his heels. Not sure Butler is in the best long-term interest of the team.
Deng on the other hand would be a big-time get and I'd be fine with LaVine licking a few wounds over that one. He'd still be a major option offensively and get plenty of minutes since Deng is starting to head toward being more of a role-player going forward.
Yeah I'm not in favor of bringing in Butler, agree with your points Q. I like our starting 5 with Zach in there, why mess with that. That's why we don't need a max player right now. Pick up a decent 2nd unit player to anchor that unit with Bazz and Euroman.
"For all the blame that Chicago management deserved for the dysfunction of the Thibodeau era, the coach was never blameless. Yes, he was right to fight for the drafting of Gorgui Dieng over Tony Snell in 2013, but becoming obsessed with whom had the job of assistant weight coach was often misplaced frustration."
GymRat wrote:I don't understand the concern with wiggins being pushed hard. I'm pretty sure he has even said he wants to be pushed to be great, and I'd argue his demeanor demands it more than anyone elses.
Yep. As much as we watch these guys on tv or in person... nobody here really knows what drives these guys.
It is strange, I feel like Kurt Rambis had more support on our board when he was hired. Don't fear success fellas.
Count me also as one who does not understand the build slow vs win now debate. The young guys already in place are the present and future. They are not being liquidated for "vets" or anyone else for that matter. Thibs did not come here to do that. Like Cam mentioned, the time to spend is now while our stars are on the cheap. The window opens now and should be open for the next 8-12 years. Spending money to compliment the roster and win now shouldn't compromise anything and it will give Thibs pieces to limit minutes. No brainer.
GymRat wrote:I don't understand the concern with wiggins being pushed hard. I'm pretty sure he has even said he wants to be pushed to be great, and I'd argue his demeanor demands it more than anyone elses.
Yep. As much as we watch these guys on tv or in person... nobody here really knows what drives these guys.
Well we can go to someone who has worked with these guys... When Sam was talking to Wolfson yesterday he said something like:
You can coach Karl and Zach hard and you want to. Sometimes you yell at them to get there attention do what you need them to do but not with Andrew. If you tell him something it has to be specific and it has to make sense. He is too smart for a lot of the old coaching tricks. -Sam chuckles-
I can't remember the article or podcast but someone was saying Thibs isn't really a teller he is just intense and just going all the time trying to figure out how to get better. It seems to me Wiggins is a guy that calculates a lot and in some cases too much because it keeps him from doing some common sense stuff.
We don't need to go hog ass wild in trying to win right now, but we should be trying to win big right away. Do the smart thing with our draft pick, add a player or two in FA (maybe a big time player), and let's see what happens.
We have a real coach that has been able to get something out of some bargain guys in the past. Why not sign some cheap talent that he can coach up? Get some 3 year deals going so we can keep them if we want them. Inam not against adding a legit established guy either but there may be a window of opportunity we aren't used to having here.
Also lets hope Thibs and Layden can buy a couple 2nd rounders and get a couple interesting euro guys or something.
monsterpile wrote:We have a real coach that has been able to get something out of some bargain guys in the past. Why not sign some cheap talent that he can coach up? Get some 3 year deals going so we can keep them if we want them. Inam not against adding a legit established guy either but there may be a window of opportunity we aren't used to having here.
Also lets hope Thibs and Layden can buy a couple 2nd rounders and get a couple interesting euro guys or something.
I would spend big money on horford but that is it on who we can realistically get.
