lipoli390 wrote:Remember the phrase, "it's the economy stupid"? Well, in this context it's the blocked shots..." 2.3 in 20 minutes for Towns compared to 1.4 by Okafor in 30 minutes. And that differential is indicative of their respective attitudes on the defensive end. Okafor likes to score on his opponents. Towns likes to crush their hearts.
They say you can't teach Okafor's low post game and I agree. But Towns can develop, and already has developed, a solid post game to go with his other skills, including his nice shooting touch from outside the paint. Similarly, you can't teach shot-blocking or the sort of attitude that makes a really good defender. And while a player can develop a skill set like low post scoring, players don't fundamentally change their nature when they come to the NBA. They are who they are and if they don't come to the NBA with a defensive "I'm going to stuff that ball back in your face" attitude, they'll never have it.
The case for KAT is compelling in my view. Defensive mindset, offensive versatility, shooting range, free throw shooting and athleticism - these are the ingredients of a potential all-star big man in the modern NBA. These are the things that Towns brings to the table in far greater measure than Okafor.
Totally agree. Take a look at Cam's Okafor vs. Towns thread for an in depth comparison of the two, and I challenge anyone else to make a logical case for Okafor. And add in the way Towns stepped up in the final games of the tournament while Okafor was merely ordinary, and the choice gets even easier.
PorkChop wrote:Towns was never leaned upon to be the number one option on his team so in turn he was more likely to rebound a miss here or there . Okafor on the other hand was taking a lot of the shots that take away from his ability to rebound those potential misses.. U really can make a good case for either player. I just prefer the guy that shows an innate ability to score the rock over someone that avg 10 pts a game last year. All sports are predicated on earning more points than the other team . I'll take the guy that can score and hope he figures it out on the other end rather than vice versa.
Yes, Towns averaged 10.3 points per game in 20.1 minutes per game. But Tim Duncan scored only 9.6 points per game his freshman year and that was playing 10 more minutes a game than Towns played. What Duncan did his freshman year was block 3.8 shots per games. At the risk of drawing the ire of those who don't like statistical extrapolations, I'll note that Towns 2.3 blocks per game translates to 3.4 per game playing the minutes Duncan played his freshman season.
So I don't put much stock in Towns 10.3 points per game as a knock on his NBA potential. And I actually see more Tim Duncan in Towns than I see in Okafor.
I'm a Towns guy, but I don't think it's fair to take whatever numbers Towns had in his reduced playing time and project them to more minutes or more possessions and say that's what he would have done with more playing time. His numbers could have been better with more playing time, they could have got worse. I don't like the numbers projections, maybe I'm alone. I think endurance and fatigue factor in. Maybe playing a reduced minute role allowed Towns to play with more energy out there. Also playing a reduced role also may have limited Town's ability to get in rhythm.
TRKO -- My main point is that Towns had more points in fewer minutes than Duncan had as a freshman. That was in response to concern about Towns scoring only 10 points per game and it obviously didn't involve any extrapolation. As for statistical extrapolations generally, I agree that you can't use them to say "that's what he would have done." Yet, that's not what I said. I just put the extrapolation out there. Does it mean that Towns' stats at 30.2 minutes would be exactly as indicated by the extrapolation? Of course not. But it's equally absurd to give no predictive value to the extrapolation, especially when extrapolating from 20 to 30 minutes as I was doing in the Duncan comparison rather than extrapolating from 20 to 40 minutes as I did earlier in this thread.
In any event, there shouldn't be any doubt that Towns is a substantially better defensive prospect than Okafor. When you then compare Towns' offensive numbers to Duncan's numbers as a freshman and factor in Towns' 81% free throw shooting, obviously impressive shooting touch and superior athleticism, the case for Towns over Okafor seems pretty darn clear. And that's before you extrapolation a single stat.
Good points. There is no doubt in my mind Okafor will be a better offensive player than Towns. We don't need a pure scorer though. I think Wiggins and LaVine will be able to score well enough, and Towns will be able to score well enough too. We need Towns defense and rebounding.
If Bazz can stay healthy that's a heck of a scorer too.
I like Okafor, but would take Towns. I would be happy going against the Lakers front line of Randle and Okafor. They both will want the same spot on the floor and neither are good defenders. We don't need scoring and if we did I would go with Russell before Okafor.
Okafor will be good, but it will be harder to build a team around him then Towns.
TRKO - I agree that Okafor will be a better scorer than Towns in the NBA. But as you indicated, we need a defensive anchor in the paint and that's what Towns would likely give us. I have Russell as the second pick on my Wolves draft board too.
lipoli390 wrote:TRKO - I agree that Okafor will be a better scorer than Towns in the NBA. But as you indicated, we need a defensive anchor in the paint and that's what Towns would likely give us. I have Russell as the second pick on my Wolves draft board too.
I don't think we are talking about Russell enough. He brings the most to the table offensively. I love his vision and passing ability not to mention he can flat shoot deep. He didn't have the talent that Okafor and Towns had around them either.
I don't see the case for Okafor, no jump shot, poor FT shooter and his post play is all about size and strength, no finesse hook just power. I see good foot work, nice handles and an awesome athletic spin move. Where is that athleticism on defense? His motor lacks at times and his defensive is rather weak for a man of his size. He doesn't understand angles that well, avoids contact, is prone to be blown by smaller guards. He's more big and strong than explosive and athletic. I'd take the more refined product in Towns and with Flip's win now mentality I think he'll do just that :)
Tactical unit wrote:I don't see the case for Okafor, no jump shot, poor FT shooter and his post play is all about size and strength, no finesse hook just power. I see good foot work, nice handles and an awesome athletic spin move. Where is that athleticism on defense? His motor lacks at times and his defensive is rather weak for a man of his size. He doesn't understand angles that well, avoids contact, is prone to be blown by smaller guards. He's more big and strong than explosive and athletic. I'd take the more refined product in Towns and with Flip's win now mentality I think he'll do just that :)
You're criticizing the guy's post game which is elite and argued to be once in a generation level. This is the problem with the draft process. Guys get ridiculously picked apart. Trying to down play his post ability. Come on.
lipoli390 wrote:TRKO - I agree that Okafor will be a better scorer than Towns in the NBA. But as you indicated, we need a defensive anchor in the paint and that's what Towns would likely give us. I have Russell as the second pick on my Wolves draft board too.
I don't think we are talking about Russell enough. He brings the most to the table offensively. I love his vision and passing ability not to mention he can flat shoot deep. He didn't have the talent that Okafor and Towns had around them either.
I think the reason we're not talking about Russell as much is because they're fairly similarly rated prospects, yet we are in dire need of quality bigs, and have potential powerhouses in our grasps...
And I think we're all very okay with not seeing a starting lineup including Payne and Hamilton.
Carlos Danger - The decision for Flip might be easy: http://www.dukebasketballreport.com/2015/5/21/8633423/report-jahlil-okafor-doesnt-want-to-play-for-t-wolves
Forget Okafukk. I told you one of these guys would go Diva
Here's how you can get away with Okafor on the team (and there's only really one way):
draft Cheick Diallo in 2016. I can't bank on that. The reality is that Okafor's weaknesses are our own pre-existing weaknesses. This team has always had trouble finding defensive compliments. What would change now with Okafor?
