Minnesota Sports Forum

So what you're saying is that we should be comparing Andrew Wiggins rookie to Kevin Durant rookie. Alrighty then..

(Sarcasm, kinda.)

Camden wrote:So what you're saying is that we should be comparing Andrew Wiggins rookie to Kevin Durant rookie. Alrighty then..

(Sarcasm, kinda.)

Nope. I'm not sure how I can be any more clear, but I will try. What I'm saying it that it's probably not smart to be comparing Wiggins to anyone after 26 games - most of which were played without a true PG. We don't have enough good data to compare yet.

While touching on more than just Wiggins, here is some commentary from David Thorpe.

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/reminiscing-ratke-chatting-espns-david-thorpe

I will completely skip trying to rationalize with numbers, as we only have 26 games to work with. I will just say that I have watched a lot of games, and he simply doesn't look very good right now. Whether that be because of PG play, being young, inexperienced, or whatever.....he just doesn't look good.

Will he be fine in the end...maybe....but like others have stated, MOST other highly touted, franchise changing players show different things that make you say...wow, that dude is going to be really good. It is not always a volume number thing, but rather showing traits. I have yet to see any series of plays that give me goosebumps with Wiggins. I see a great athlete with very average basketball skills. Hope desperately I am wrong.

Zach Lowe (Grantland) ranks the Western Conference teams today. The Wolves are last. Fair enough. But that's not what I found interesting about it...

"It's a lost season for a team that tricked itself into thinking it might contend for a playoff spot if Ricky Rubio, Nikola Pekovic, Kevin Martin, and other key starters remained healthy. That was a pipe dream, and the Wolves will regret tossing the giddy Sixers a Heat first-round pick for Thaddeus Young in the Kevin Love deal.

The Cavs and Wolves didn't need the Sixers to complete the basic trade, and given Miami's downside -- a downside playing out right now -- the rebuilding Wolves should have held on to a pick that could fall in the mid-teens. Young's a nice player and a great guy, but he can't rebound or defend his position and he's stopped shooting 3s (like basically everyone else here).

There have been some bright spots amid the carnage. Shabazz Muhammad has emerged as a legitimate force in the post, nailing quick-trigger jump hooks, drawing a heap of fouls, and crashing the offensive glass like a madman. He appears to have recently discovered that something called "passing" is allowed in basketball, though most of his assists have come when passing has been the only option -- as an inbounds passer, and the covered guy on a two-on-one.

Chase Budinger has finally perked up, and Zach LaVine has had bursts of exciting competence amid the troubles anyone would experience playing point guard at 19 on an awful team.

Everything else has been ugly. Minny has done the improbable and caught Philly in the race for the league's worst per-possession point differential, and they're free-falling toward the Lakers in total defense. Anthony Bennett hasn't shown much beyond the occasional midrange jumper, and Gorgui Dieng can't protect the rim; opponents have nailed 60.3 percent of their shots around the basket when Dieng is near both the shooter and the hoop, the second-worst mark among the 61 players who have defended at least five such shots per game.2

Enjoy the upcoming top-five pick. Please make better use of it than You-Know-Who would."

1. Dieng being among the worst at defending the rim?
2. No mention of Wiggins? What to make of that? Oversight? Irrelevant? He isn't crappy?
Or, does it simply reiterate what a lot of people are writing here... Wiggins is so unfinished and raw that there's really not much to say about him right now. He's not terrible. And not good. He's in the middle and we'll have to wait quite awhile to make any legit assessments?

Hicks123 wrote:I will completely skip trying to rationalize with numbers, as we only have 26 games to work with. I will just say that I have watched a lot of games, and he simply doesn't look very good right now. Whether that be because of PG play, being young, inexperienced, or whatever.....he just doesn't look good.

Will he be fine in the end...maybe....but like others have stated, MOST other highly touted, franchise changing players show different things that make you say...wow, that dude is going to be really good. It is not always a volume number thing, but rather showing traits. I have yet to see any series of plays that give me goosebumps with Wiggins. I see a great athlete with very average basketball skills. Hope desperately I am wrong.

He has taken over games in several quarters throughout the year. He stopped a 3 on 1 fast break by himself. He has shown quarters of great play and a couple games overall. The consistency isn't there, but I don't know how you can say he hasn't shown you any series of plays when he has dominated a couple quarters this year. The flashes have been there. They just haven't had much consistency to them yet.

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Zach Lowe (Grantland) ranks the Western Conference teams today. The Wolves are last. Fair enough. But that's not what I found interesting about it...

"It's a lost season for a team that tricked itself into thinking it might contend for a playoff spot if Ricky Rubio, Nikola Pekovic, Kevin Martin, and other key starters remained healthy. That was a pipe dream, and the Wolves will regret tossing the giddy Sixers a Heat first-round pick for Thaddeus Young in the Kevin Love deal.

The Cavs and Wolves didn't need the Sixers to complete the basic trade, and given Miami's downside -- a downside playing out right now -- the rebuilding Wolves should have held on to a pick that could fall in the mid-teens. Young's a nice player and a great guy, but he can't rebound or defend his position and he's stopped shooting 3s (like basically everyone else here).

There have been some bright spots amid the carnage. Shabazz Muhammad has emerged as a legitimate force in the post, nailing quick-trigger jump hooks, drawing a heap of fouls, and crashing the offensive glass like a madman. He appears to have recently discovered that something called "passing" is allowed in basketball, though most of his assists have come when passing has been the only option -- as an inbounds passer, and the covered guy on a two-on-one.

Chase Budinger has finally perked up, and Zach LaVine has had bursts of exciting competence amid the troubles anyone would experience playing point guard at 19 on an awful team.

Everything else has been ugly. Minny has done the improbable and caught Philly in the race for the league's worst per-possession point differential, and they're free-falling toward the Lakers in total defense. Anthony Bennett hasn't shown much beyond the occasional midrange jumper, and Gorgui Dieng can't protect the rim; opponents have nailed 60.3 percent of their shots around the basket when Dieng is near both the shooter and the hoop, the second-worst mark among the 61 players who have defended at least five such shots per game.2

Enjoy the upcoming top-five pick. Please make better use of it than You-Know-Who would."

1. Dieng being among the worst at defending the rim?
2. No mention of Wiggins? What to make of that? Oversight? Irrelevant? He isn't crappy?
Or, does it simply reiterate what a lot of people are writing here... Wiggins is so unfinished and raw that there's really not much to say about him right now. He's not terrible. And not good. He's in the middle and we'll have to wait quite awhile to make any legit assessments?

Or it could mean that Wiggins has done exactly what he expected and didn't need to be called out one way or the other.

So Tim posted an interview with a guy that trains NBA players in the off season, and you posted an article written by a journalist (whom I read a lot).

I think I will probably put a little more stock in the analysis by the trainer

I think Dieng with no help and his sleight frame have really hurt his rim protecting ability in the pros. His frame is also a reason he is not a great screen setter. He looks strong, but he is vary narrow and being tall and narrow is just causing him to be pushed around. He never had to face as big of body's in college and most guards aren't great finishers through contact. It's starting to look like he'll probably be best as a backup 5 playing around 20 minutes a game for future years. He just lacks the size to be all that intimidating at the rim and there is no one else on the team playing right now over 6'8 so he is pretty much on his own. Even if we just put a better rebounder next to him I think that FG% number would come down because we give up a good number of offensive boards and easy second chance points in which he would be at the rim and by the player scoring.

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/andrew-wiggins-mitchell-wiggins-minnesota-timberwolves-houston-rockets/

Great article on Wiggins and his dad. At least his dad isn't disappointed in him. That would be really bad.

sjm34 wrote:

AbeVigodaLive wrote:Zach Lowe (Grantland) ranks the Western Conference teams today. The Wolves are last. Fair enough. But that's not what I found interesting about it...

"It's a lost season for a team that tricked itself into thinking it might contend for a playoff spot if Ricky Rubio, Nikola Pekovic, Kevin Martin, and other key starters remained healthy. That was a pipe dream, and the Wolves will regret tossing the giddy Sixers a Heat first-round pick for Thaddeus Young in the Kevin Love deal.

The Cavs and Wolves didn't need the Sixers to complete the basic trade, and given Miami's downside -- a downside playing out right now -- the rebuilding Wolves should have held on to a pick that could fall in the mid-teens. Young's a nice player and a great guy, but he can't rebound or defend his position and he's stopped shooting 3s (like basically everyone else here).

There have been some bright spots amid the carnage. Shabazz Muhammad has emerged as a legitimate force in the post, nailing quick-trigger jump hooks, drawing a heap of fouls, and crashing the offensive glass like a madman. He appears to have recently discovered that something called "passing" is allowed in basketball, though most of his assists have come when passing has been the only option -- as an inbounds passer, and the covered guy on a two-on-one.

Chase Budinger has finally perked up, and Zach LaVine has had bursts of exciting competence amid the troubles anyone would experience playing point guard at 19 on an awful team.

Everything else has been ugly. Minny has done the improbable and caught Philly in the race for the league's worst per-possession point differential, and they're free-falling toward the Lakers in total defense. Anthony Bennett hasn't shown much beyond the occasional midrange jumper, and Gorgui Dieng can't protect the rim; opponents have nailed 60.3 percent of their shots around the basket when Dieng is near both the shooter and the hoop, the second-worst mark among the 61 players who have defended at least five such shots per game.2

Enjoy the upcoming top-five pick. Please make better use of it than You-Know-Who would."

1. Dieng being among the worst at defending the rim?
2. No mention of Wiggins? What to make of that? Oversight? Irrelevant? He isn't crappy?
Or, does it simply reiterate what a lot of people are writing here... Wiggins is so unfinished and raw that there's really not much to say about him right now. He's not terrible. And not good. He's in the middle and we'll have to wait quite awhile to make any legit assessments?

Or it could mean that Wiggins has done exactly what he expected and didn't need to be called out one way or the other.

So Tim posted an interview with a guy that trains NBA players in the off season, and you posted an article written by a journalist (whom I read a lot).

I think I will probably put a little more stock in the analysis by the trainer

But the Lowe piece doesn't even mention Wiggins. That's why I found it to be interesting.

And telling. I think we're saying the same thing about Wiggins just in different ways.