Sure to piss off the forum

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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

lipoli390 wrote:If the Wolves have a future as a perennial playoff team and championship contender that future is in the young athletic first round picks on the roster playing an up-tempo high octane high scoring style of basketball. Starting the 35-year old Prince does nothing to advance towards that future.

The best hope for this team long term is a dynamic wing duo of Wiggns and LaVine. That's the starting wing combination that should start the season as Mitchell initially intended. And that combination should have been given every opportunity to succeed together this season, including an extended run on the court together from the beginning. Wiggins won rookie of the year at SF. He's at his best offensively near the bucket and his ballhandling is still well below the standard for modern day NBA SGs. LaVine struggled in his 4 preseason games, but he was excellent the last 3 weeks of last season. And according to Sam himself, LaVine has been the team's best player in practice this camp.

Ok, so Sam has it in his head that our best hope is to be bigger than other teams at the two wing positions. Never mind that no other winning team in today's NBA has pursued that strategy and succeeded. Even if you buy Sam's baffling "out-size-them" strategy, no one on this planet can possibly justify Prince as Wiggins' wing mate on this rebuilding team just starting the second year of the rebuilding process with Shabazz and Bjelica on the roster.

Someone suggested that Sam is either a genius or a moron. Well, Sam is absolutely positively no genius!! I'm already looking forward to the end of the season when hopefully our paltry 20-23 wins will convince this organization to join the other 29 NBA teams who have no interest in Sam Mitchel as their head coach. Then we have to hope that this organization is smart and non-parochial enough to higher one of the widely recognized elite head coaching prospects around the League.


Lip, My first reaction was as vociferous as yours, but I think we need to let this play out a bit. Wiggins is unique because not only is he taller than most 2 guards, but then he doesn't really give up any quickness defensively because of his athleticism. All else being equal, bigger is better.

As for Prince starting, I think we need to see how that works in its application. He may simply be a token starter that is only in there for the first 4-5 minutes, rarely to be seen again in the rest of the half. Mitchell is preaching defense, so I can see where his thought process is to set the right defensive tone from the beginning and then substitute in his offensive weapons as the quarter progresses.

The part I absolutely disagree with is Zach at PG. Been there done that. If Mitchell is convinced Wiggins should spend most of his minutes as a 2, then he needs to move someone. That someone would be Martin.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

bleedspeed177 wrote:i can accept what Sam is doing with Prince, but not accept LaVine playing PG. I think it is clear that Martin is the odd player out on this team and he brings value and is block any development of LaVine. I would love to see us trade Martin. I would love to trade him to the Bulls for Portis and fillers.


Bleed, we'd never get Portis for Martin. He's a young, promising player on a rookie contract. Taj Gibson on the other hand......
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bleedspeed
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by bleedspeed »

Q - I wouldn't be against that trade but would want Mirotic before him. I would love to trade Matrin/Dieng for Mirotic/Portis.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

bleedspeed177 wrote:Q - I wouldn't be against that trade but would want Mirotic before him. I would love to trade Matrin/Dieng for Mirotic/Portis.


Bleed, So now we'd have 4 power forwards on the roster: KG, Bjelica, Mirotic, and Portis. Does that make sense to you? I guess we'd have to play Portis at Center....

(by the way, they'd never do that trade either).

Martin for Gibson would make sense since they are on similar contracts and approximately the same age. Plus the Bulls have plenty of depth at PF, so losing Gibson probably wouldn't hurt them too much.
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Monster
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Monster »

People are reading way way way way too much into Prince starting the season at SF. That move makes people think the organization or Sam believes Wiggins is a future SG. Maybe but unless Bazz becomes a starter long term I doubt it. This lineup is temporary unless all the young players suck or the Wolves have some magical success with Prince starting. Right now we have Martin maybe getting scraps at SG based on his talent and 2 PGs out of the rotation entirely. No way that keeps up. To me one positive side effect of Prince starting is it takes some pressure off Bazz and Lavine to be the answer right now but it gives both guys something to work toward. I don't like Lavine at PG but I see positives in Prince starting at SF. Plus Sam may see some good chemistry in practice that we don't see that makes him have good reason to put guys together as he has them right now. It's gonna be work in progress. Another thought is Sam may not be starting Martin because he wants him to get used to a bench role. He is a shot hunter but he is a calm guy that might be good with some young guys next to him. If he plays with Tyus or Miller (assuming Zach figures things out) Martin will get some easy buckets and he will when he plays some minutes with Rubio. None of this is perfect but hopefully Zach finds his way and plays well enough to get into the starting lineup. I don't think he has to blow up just be solid and somewhat consistent for that to happen. He was far from that in preseason.
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Camden [enjin:6601484]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Camden [enjin:6601484] »

Gibson for Martin makes a ton of sense for the Bulls, but that trade makes zero sense for the Wolves. It would have a season or two ago, but not now. Gibson's contract is good for this year and next. The Wolves expect to have Garnett for this season and next, while also playing Bjelica for the bulk of those remaining minutes. Gibson's a better player than Garnett is right now, but definitely not the vocal leader on defense that Towns needs.

We'd be better off trading Martin for a lottery-protected first round pick at the deadline.
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Q12543 [enjin:6621299]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Q12543 [enjin:6621299] »

Cam, I wouldn't be opposed to trading Martin for a lottery-protected 1st because it would help us re-stock future picks that we had previously given away.

You make a good point about the redundancy between Gibson and KG, but let's face it, KG is highly unlikely to play all 82 games this season and I even question what his role will be next season. He might be willing to be a bench guy that is more assistant coach/cheerleader than active player. That means - gulp - Payne is second on our depth chart at PF when KG can't (or won't ) play. I have seen NOTHING from Payne this pre-season that indicates he has any more clue how to play professional basketball than he did last year.

Gibson would give us that mid-career vet that is still very effective. Plus he's a hard-nosed defender - something we still definitely need more of on our roster.

I view it as an offense-for-defense trade of two mid-career vets on approximately similar contract terms.
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Carlos Danger
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by Carlos Danger »

lipoli390 wrote:If the Wolves have a future as a perennial playoff team and championship contender that future is in the young athletic first round picks on the roster playing an up-tempo high octane high scoring style of basketball. Starting the 35-year old Prince does nothing to advance towards that future.

The best hope for this team long term is a dynamic wing duo of Wiggns and LaVine. That's the starting wing combination that should start the season as Mitchell initially intended. And that combination should have been given every opportunity to succeed together this season, including an extended run on the court together from the beginning. Wiggins won rookie of the year at SF. He's at his best offensively near the bucket and his ballhandling is still well below the standard for modern day NBA SGs. LaVine struggled in his 4 preseason games, but he was excellent the last 3 weeks of last season. And according to Sam himself, LaVine has been the team's best player in practice this camp.

Ok, so Sam has it in his head that our best hope is to be bigger than other teams at the two wing positions. Never mind that no other winning team in today's NBA has pursued that strategy and succeeded. Even if you buy Sam's baffling "out-size-them" strategy, no one on this planet can possibly justify Prince as Wiggins' wing mate on this rebuilding team just starting the second year of the rebuilding process with Shabazz and Bjelica on the roster.

Someone suggested that Sam is either a genius or a moron. Well, Sam is absolutely positively no genius!! I'm already looking forward to the end of the season when hopefully our paltry 20-23 wins will convince this organization to join the other 29 NBA teams who have no interest in Sam Mitchel as their head coach. Then we have to hope that this organization is smart and non-parochial enough to higher one of the widely recognized elite head coaching prospects around the League.


HA! This is pretty well stated. And also shows the frustration many of us are feeling right now. I've been blowing off steam all week. But now I'm going to try to flip back over to the positive side again and find a silver lining. Maybe (crossing fingers), the additions of Prince and KG along with a healthy Rubio will finally provide some stability on the defensive side. I (and most others) feel that was the biggest area of concern last year. So...maybe if they can show "the system" works with guys that know how to play, then the young guys will have a model (mentor?) to follow. And perhaps that will give Mitchell some "street cred" with the youngsters because they can see it works - they just were not doing it right. Well...that's my theory anyway. However I'm watching again tonight and if they stink it up again, I'll go back to hating :-) There's talent on this team. It's up to the coach to get the most out of it. So far Sam has failed. But maybe he's just strategically lowering our expectations during preseason!
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60WinTim
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by 60WinTim »

Q - my hope is that Dieng and/or Towns is the 2nd option at PF when KG is not playing. And maybe we will see even more of it when Pek starts playing.
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BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520]
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Re: Sure to piss off the forum

Post by BizarroJerry [enjin:6592520] »

How is Sam a failure already as a few of you are suggesting? He has the same record as every other coach this year.
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