TheGrey08 wrote:Monster, FNG and Q, good points and insight on immigration. It's the biggest reason our country has succeeded as well as it has. Afterall it was literally established and built from it. People seem to forget that. Illegal immigrants get a bad wrap in general when they really have far more positive impact than negative.
But there will never be a longer-term, durable solution unless more democrats take illegal immigration seriously and acknowledge that it is a big concern for a significant portion of voters and indeed a legitimate problem. We are ruled by laws and they should be followed and enforced.
By the same token, more republicans need to stop with the nativist mindset when this country was built on immigrants and its become obvious that there is a labor shortage in both high-skill and low-skill areas that people from other countries can help fill. It's actually un-American in my opinion to restrict legal channels of immigration.
The solution to me is to reform and expand legal immigration in a big way while at the same time cracking down on illegal immigration. It's possible to do both at once but unfortunately the loudest voices seem to dominate one extreme or the other.
I think that is exactly it. It doesnt even have to be a pathway to citizenship. Just make the visas easier to get too. Cross boarder work has gotten mental over the last 10 years. Ultimately everyone in politics is either worried or excited about them becoming voters and changing the balance of power. Then people dig their feet in, business suffers, and there wont be a logical solution in sight.
TheGrey08 wrote:Monster, FNG and Q, good points and insight on immigration. It's the biggest reason our country has succeeded as well as it has. Afterall it was literally established and built from it. People seem to forget that. Illegal immigrants get a bad wrap in general when they really have far more positive impact than negative.
But there will never be a longer-term, durable solution unless more democrats take illegal immigration seriously and acknowledge that it is a big concern for a significant portion of voters and indeed a legitimate problem. We are ruled by laws and they should be followed and enforced.
By the same token, more republicans need to stop with the nativist mindset when this country was built on immigrants and its become obvious that there is a labor shortage in both high-skill and low-skill areas that people from other countries can help fill. It's actually un-American in my opinion to restrict legal channels of immigration.
The solution to me is to reform and expand legal immigration in a big way while at the same time cracking down on illegal immigration. It's possible to do both at once but unfortunately the loudest voices seem to dominate one extreme or the other.
I think that is exactly it. It doesnt even have to be a pathway to citizenship. Just make the visas easier to get too. Cross boarder work has gotten mental over the last 10 years. Ultimately everyone in politics is either worried or excited about them becoming voters and changing the balance of power. Then people dig their feet in, business suffers, and there wont be a logical solution in sight.
It's interesting to consider who decides who has a right to inhabit land. This country wasn't really built on a fair immigration to the people who were here well before the continent was colonized. I'm not suggesting just let everyone in but I also think it's worth considering our history. In addition there were also a large population of people forced to come to this country against their will.
I think it's REALLY worth considering who has something to gain or lose because of immigration. Are their some people benefiting finically from the way it is now and that's another reason why not a whole lot has changed?
Like Q I do wish there could be some agreement to make things better but I do also recognize it's a complicated thing to work out. If you start reading about immigration and really knowing how it all works...it's not hard to come away with the idea that the system could be better. I have some experience knowing people immigrating here in various ways from different countries. I also know some people that have worked in the government offices. I'm not an expert I've seen a little perspective on various sides.
I think one thing that could be a positive is actually building a culture worldwide where people feel more comfortable (maybe even encouraged to some extent) moving to a different area of the world. Some people want to get out of their town or city but some people may just fit in better in a different country as well. That doesn't mean everyone is going to congregate with everyone they agree with etc but people bringing in new perspectives could have some positive effects. One of my friends would probably live abroad if he didn't feel like he needed to stay in the US for his family. I think he felt more comfortable in some of the European countries he lived in for a short time than the US. That might not be the case anymore since he has sort of established his life but 10-15 years ago it was. Personally I do like traveling and seeing how people live in different places. I'm not sure I would move to another country but I'm not opposed to it either. I've lived in the Midwest most of my life but if I had a good reason to move to another state I'd be up for it. I can't always say I felt that way.
Q12543 wrote:
But there will never be a longer-term, durable solution unless more democrats take illegal immigration seriously and acknowledge that it is a big concern for a significant portion of voters and indeed a legitimate problem. We are ruled by laws and they should be followed and enforced.
By the same token, more republicans need to stop with the nativist mindset when this country was built on immigrants and its become obvious that there is a labor shortage in both high-skill and low-skill areas that people from other countries can help fill. It's actually un-American in my opinion to restrict legal channels of immigration.
The solution to me is to reform and expand legal immigration in a big way while at the same time cracking down on illegal immigration. It's possible to do both at once but unfortunately the loudest voices seem to dominate one extreme or the other.
I think that is exactly it. It doesnt even have to be a pathway to citizenship. Just make the visas easier to get too. Cross boarder work has gotten mental over the last 10 years. Ultimately everyone in politics is either worried or excited about them becoming voters and changing the balance of power. Then people dig their feet in, business suffers, and there wont be a logical solution in sight.
I generally agree with both of you. There are common sense solutions that address each area.
I was mainly referencing the extreme rhetoric that they're a big negative to the country, when they atleast do more good than harm.
Improving immigration, visas, etc would drastically reduce illegal immigration. A large portion enter legally and then just don't leave when they are unable to legally extend it.
They should be able to expand and improve the immigration process, giving current hard working and especially tax paying undocumented immigrants the chance to gain legal immigrancy or citizenship and then after that period taking illegal immigration more seriously.
As someone who is watching this from afar, it could be worse. You could get used to it and accept this as everyday life, like where I'm from. I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't, so just protect yourselves and your neighborhoods. That's all you can do. If you're a minority like me, all you can do is live life with your head on a swivel.
I'm not gonna get into the political garbage that comes from this because this shouldn't be a political issue at all.
WildWolf2813 wrote:As someone who is watching this from afar, it could be worse. You could get used to it and accept this as everyday life, like where I'm from. I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't, so just protect yourselves and your neighborhoods. That's all you can do. If you're a minority like me, all you can do is live life with your head on a swivel.
I'm not gonna get into the political garbage that comes from this because this shouldn't be a political issue at all.
WW, I'm not understanding your comment "I hope justice is served, but realistically it won't"? What does that mean? I'm hoping you aren't suggesting there should be a predetermined outcome, because I think that would be about the worst case scenario (where facts of the case don't come into play to decide the case, but rather to decide the case based on emotion). I've said all along that this is a very difficult case (I actually was recently called for jury duty in Hennepin County about 2 months ago and had I delayed it until March instead of January I may have been on the case), but also one where whatever the correct outcome is should be the outcome...not one based on a pro-mob or pro-police sentiment.
What's concerning to me is people like Maxine Waters who shows up in Brooklyn Center and tells the crowd to only accept the lawful outcome if he's found guilty of murder..and that manslaughter isn't good enough, saying they need to be more aggressive..and then follows it up today by tweeting riots are the voice of the unheard. If Trump was inciting riots by suggesting his followers go peacefully to the capitol and demand they decertify the election results, then surely Waters suggesting they not accept the results of a court case and literally implying riots are okay in her tweet is next-level on a city that has already been incited by riots, looting, and arson.
