Trade market and trade hype thread

[AbeVigodaLive]

Abe - I think the thing with LaVine is he is improving year over year at a good clip and likely will peak at a higher level then CJ. LaVine is also on the same trajectory as Towns which is huge.

Wiggins has not improved like Zach. That is more of a concern. In ways he has taken a step back this year vs last year. Some of that might be playing more SF.

I get that. And I agree. I care about actual progress and improvement over anything else. As long as guys are showing tangible improvements, I'm cool.

That being said, I think it's a legit discussion about which is more important?

- NBA years vs. Real life age.

[bleedspeed]

That being said, I think it's a legit discussion about which is more important?

- NBA years vs. Real life age.

Age - scouts will tell you that all of the time. Look at how Shabazz's stock dropped when it was discovered he was a year older.

He was ranked 1st in class of 2013 until they discovered he was 20 not 19 in March.

Dropped as far as 18 n projections by draft express.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shabazz-Muhammad-6270/mock-draft-history/

[bleedspeed]

You can also look at it is they don't improve. You get Zach or Wiggins at this level for 9-11 years and you get CJ at this level for 5-7 years.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

For all the people that want Wiggins at SG, let me ask you this: what changes?

Does his handle get tighter? Does his shot get better? Does his court vision get better? Does his shot selection improve? Does his motor run hotter for longer? Does he make more of an effort to rebound? Does his team defense get a lot better?

Changing his spot in the lineup won't really change any of that. Only Wiggins can make those improvements and they're arguably the areas where he's weakest. Should he improve in those areas, however, his specific placement in the lineup won't matter because he'll be a monster. I think that discussion is already played out (whether Wiggins should be a SG or SF).

What changes is you can play a bigger, stronger player at the 3.

No, I'm asking how does that move make Wiggins a better player? Or are you conceding that it doesn't?

Subsequently, moving Wiggins to SG also moves LaVine out of a spot that he's been thriving in. In more ways than one, it makes the Wolves worse.

If we do need a bigger SF, and I agree that we do, perhaps Wiggins should go through Antetokounmpo's workout regimen. Giannis went from 196 on the day he was drafted to 222 before this season. Adding strength and size shouldn't be an obstacle if he puts in the work.

[AbeVigodaLive]

That being said, I think it's a legit discussion about which is more important?

- NBA years vs. Real life age.

Age - scouts will tell you that all of the time. Look at how Shabazz's stock dropped when it was discovered he was a year older.

He was ranked 1st in class of 2013 until they discovered he was 20 not 19 in March.

Dropped as far as 18 n projections by draft express.

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Shabazz-Muhammad-6270/mock-draft-history/

Sure. But that's before he played in the NBA. I get that difference. Every year helps because it helps the player on both ends of the debate.

I'm talking about what takes precedence...

Hypothetical: A 22-year-old with 3 years on NBA experience... or a 23-year-old with 1 year of NBA experience. Which one has more room for growth? Which one already knows more about the NBA game?

I can see both sides. That's why I think it's an interesting debate.

[Coolbreeze44]

For all the people that want Wiggins at SG, let me ask you this: what changes?

Does his handle get tighter? Does his shot get better? Does his court vision get better? Does his shot selection improve? Does his motor run hotter for longer? Does he make more of an effort to rebound? Does his team defense get a lot better?

Changing his spot in the lineup won't really change any of that. Only Wiggins can make those improvements and they're arguably the areas where he's weakest. Should he improve in those areas, however, his specific placement in the lineup won't matter because he'll be a monster. I think that discussion is already played out (whether Wiggins should be a SG or SF).

What changes is you can play a bigger, stronger player at the 3.

No, I'm asking how does that move make Wiggins a better player? Or are you conceding that it doesn't?

Subsequently, moving Wiggins to SG also moves LaVine out of a spot that he's been thriving in. In more ways than one, it makes the Wolves worse.

If we do need a bigger SF, and I agree that we do, perhaps Wiggins should go through Antetokounmpo's workout regimen. Giannis went from 196 on the day he was drafted to 222 before this season. Adding strength and size shouldn't be an obstacle if he puts in the work.

If the opposing small forward has to guard our bigger player, it gives Wiggins an even greater advantage over his opponent. He can score on just about anybody, but his post up opportunities against smaller wing players would certainly help our offense.

[Camden [enjin:6601484]]

For all the people that want Wiggins at SG, let me ask you this: what changes?

Does his handle get tighter? Does his shot get better? Does his court vision get better? Does his shot selection improve? Does his motor run hotter for longer? Does he make more of an effort to rebound? Does his team defense get a lot better?

Changing his spot in the lineup won't really change any of that. Only Wiggins can make those improvements and they're arguably the areas where he's weakest. Should he improve in those areas, however, his specific placement in the lineup won't matter because he'll be a monster. I think that discussion is already played out (whether Wiggins should be a SG or SF).

What changes is you can play a bigger, stronger player at the 3.

No, I'm asking how does that move make Wiggins a better player? Or are you conceding that it doesn't?

Subsequently, moving Wiggins to SG also moves LaVine out of a spot that he's been thriving in. In more ways than one, it makes the Wolves worse.

If we do need a bigger SF, and I agree that we do, perhaps Wiggins should go through Antetokounmpo's workout regimen. Giannis went from 196 on the day he was drafted to 222 before this season. Adding strength and size shouldn't be an obstacle if he puts in the work.

If the opposing small forward has to guard our bigger player, it gives Wiggins an even greater advantage over his opponent. He can score on just about anybody, but his post up opportunities against smaller wing players would certainly help our offense.

You already said it, Cool. "He can score on just about anybody." So, making that move is relatively useless, in my opinion. Again, it doesn't make his game any more well-rounded or complete. All it does is make his individual matchup a physical advantage while displacing an arguably better player from that position in the process.

I know where you stand and you with me, but I'll end with this. What's stopping Wiggins from growing to 215-220 in a couple years to be that bigger SF you're asking for? And then something triggered in my mind that I had read a while back...

"That dependability is where Wiggins, even with his experience and 2015 Rookie of the Year award, comes up short. One of the keys to Minnesota's future success is for Wiggins, 20, to be strong enough to be a full-time small forward and open up the shooting-guard position for LaVine, also 20. Team insiders, though, lament how many weightlifting sessions Wiggins skips, and the supposedly slim-fit, sleeved jerseys the Wolves love to wear show the ample room to grow in his arms." - Kevin Ding, Senior Writer at Bleacher Report

Perhaps Wiggins is stopping himself. Perhaps it goes back to the question of how bad does he want it?

[thedoper]

For all the people that want Wiggins at SG, let me ask you this: what changes?

Does his handle get tighter? Does his shot get better? Does his court vision get better? Does his shot selection improve? Does his motor run hotter for longer? Does he make more of an effort to rebound? Does his team defense get a lot better?

Changing his spot in the lineup won't really change any of that. Only Wiggins can make those improvements and they're arguably the areas where he's weakest. Should he improve in those areas, however, his specific placement in the lineup won't matter because he'll be a monster. I think that discussion is already played out (whether Wiggins should be a SG or SF).

What changes is you can play a bigger, stronger player at the 3.

No, I'm asking how does that move make Wiggins a better player? Or are you conceding that it doesn't?

Subsequently, moving Wiggins to SG also moves LaVine out of a spot that he's been thriving in. In more ways than one, it makes the Wolves worse.

If we do need a bigger SF, and I agree that we do, perhaps Wiggins should go through Antetokounmpo's workout regimen. Giannis went from 196 on the day he was drafted to 222 before this season. Adding strength and size shouldn't be an obstacle if he puts in the work.

If the opposing small forward has to guard our bigger player, it gives Wiggins an even greater advantage over his opponent. He can score on just about anybody, but his post up opportunities against smaller wing players would certainly help our offense.

You already said it, Cool. "He can score on just about anybody." So, making that move is relatively useless, in my opinion. Again, it doesn't make his game any more well-rounded or complete. All it does is make his individual matchup a physical advantage while displacing an arguably better player from that position in the process.

I know where you stand and you with me, but I'll end with this. What's stopping Wiggins from growing to 215-220 in a couple years to be that bigger SF you're asking for? And then something triggered in my mind that I had read a while back...

"That dependability is where Wiggins, even with his experience and 2015 Rookie of the Year award, comes up short. One of the keys to Minnesota's future success is for Wiggins, 20, to be strong enough to be a full-time small forward and open up the shooting-guard position for LaVine, also 20. Team insiders, though, lament how many weightlifting sessions Wiggins skips, and the supposedly slim-fit, sleeved jerseys the Wolves love to wear show the ample room to grow in his arms." - Kevin Ding, Senior Writer at Bleacher Report

Perhaps Wiggins is stopping himself. Perhaps it goes back to the question of how bad does he want it?

The same argument could be made for how bad does Lavine want to be a PG. Him and his dad lauded him as a point in college and coming out of the draft, but he clearly never had the sense or work ethic to learn the position. We all know that Lavine at the point didn't work. Was this because of his work ethic or basketball IQ? Wiggins natural position is a 2, but you are correct in saying that it just isn't worth pushing Zach off the floor. So the person playing out of his natural position is Wiggins. Good thing he is uniquely versatile on both sides of the floor. The downside is that when a 3 has 50 lbs on him like Leonard it will be quite noticeable. If only Zach did have the work ethic to learn the point guard position. We'd have one of the best backcourts in the NBA already.

[bleedspeed]

I bet Wiggins 1 year salary I can bench 185lbs more reps than him. Pretty said for a middle age desk jockey to be able to say that. Double or nothing at 225lb. Shit I would do it today even sick with the flu.

[Coolbreeze44]

I'm not trying to make this a Zach vs Wiggins thing. I'm extremely high on both players. I'd like to see them both flourish as Wolves for a long time. I think Zach could play some PG as well as time at the 2. But there is some redundancy with the two players. I think it's fair to say that at this point the SG position is probably what they are both best suited for. If Wig can increase his strength and become a more natural 3 I'm all for it.