Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
alexftbl8181 wrote:Without researching it, I doubt that the Wolves have won a game in Wiggins career that he hasn't scored at least 20 points
Yes, his long and illustrious career thus far....
I think it goes to show that he has to score at least 20, and probably more like 30, to give a Wolves a chance. If Wiggins gets 12 points, 12 boards and 4 assists, doubtful the Wolves are in it
Maybe. Maybe not.
The Wolves are 28 - 94 with Wiggins as a "scorer." It's nearly impossible to do any worse than that.
12 / 12 / 4 is not a bad stat line by the way. (To be fair, neither is 28 / 2 / 1)
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
May I ask which players on this team the advance metrics say is helping the team when they are not shooting efficiently?
Look, Wiggins is not a problem. He has weaknesses sure but he every coach in this league will play wiggins even when he is not "scoring efficiently" as the metrics indicate because they believe they have a shot at winning with wig on the floor.
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
May I ask which players on this team the advance metrics say is helping the team when they are not shooting efficiently?
Look, Wiggins is not a problem. He has weaknesses sure but he every coach in this league will play wiggins even when he is not "scoring efficiently" as the metrics indicate because they believe they have a shot at winning with wig on the floor.
Rubio. Definitely.
I'm not sure where you're going with #2. Wiggins just isn't that good yet using any sort of metric to back it up. I don't think Wiggins would be given the same leash with other teams as he does with the Wolves. The Wolves have to play him and let him learn the ropes and take his lumps. He's a HUGE part of the future. Obviously. I don't have a problem with it.
But put him on the GSW. Or, Spurs. Or, Cavs or Thunder? I'm not sure they're going to go with an inefficient scorer who doesn't do much else nearly as much. Would he play? Of course... but not like here.
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
May I ask which players on this team the advance metrics say is helping the team when they are not shooting efficiently?
Look, Wiggins is not a problem. He has weaknesses sure but he every coach in this league will play wiggins even when he is not "scoring efficiently" as the metrics indicate because they believe they have a shot at winning with wig on the floor.
Rubio. Definitely.
I'm not sure where you're going with #2. Wiggins just isn't that good yet using any sort of metric to back it up. I don't think Wiggins would be given the same leash with other teams as he does with the Wolves. The Wolves have to play him and let him learn the ropes and take his lumps. He's a HUGE part of the future. Obviously. I don't have a problem with it.
But put him on the GSW. Or, Spurs. Or, Cavs or Thunder? I'm not sure they're going to go with an inefficient scorer who doesn't do much else nearly as much. Would he play? Of course... but not like here.
Abe, rubio is probably the only answer because his shooting/scoring woes i well documented that the only reason he is a starting pg in this league is because he does the other things at near elite level.
On point number 2, I am only refering to the wolves. Let any nba coach coach the wolves now and they will all play wiggins whatever the metrics say.
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
May I ask which players on this team the advance metrics say is helping the team when they are not shooting efficiently?
Look, Wiggins is not a problem. He has weaknesses sure but he every coach in this league will play wiggins even when he is not "scoring efficiently" as the metrics indicate because they believe they have a shot at winning with wig on the floor.
Rubio. Definitely.
I'm not sure where you're going with #2. Wiggins just isn't that good yet using any sort of metric to back it up. I don't think Wiggins would be given the same leash with other teams as he does with the Wolves. The Wolves have to play him and let him learn the ropes and take his lumps. He's a HUGE part of the future. Obviously. I don't have a problem with it.
But put him on the GSW. Or, Spurs. Or, Cavs or Thunder? I'm not sure they're going to go with an inefficient scorer who doesn't do much else nearly as much. Would he play? Of course... but not like here.
Other teams wouldn't run the same bullshit offense we do. They'd actually have a system that would help make Wiggins an efficient player. He's a second year player and forced hero baller on a terrible team this year. That's a terrible situation for efficiency. Leonard was way more raw then Wiggins and look what the Spurs were able to do with him. Put Wiggins on a good team and he probably actually looks like a good player. Instead he's playing with 1 good player in Towns while the rest of the team is average to sub-average and instead of being able to play within a system, he's asked to make plays for himself consistently out of isolation situations when he has a shaky handle. Tell me how that's a good way to develop a player.
You know what those good teams would have done? They would have had him focus on defense and shooting and eventually put him on the ball more when he better developed his body and his handle to be an effective driver and scorer. Instead we're just giving him the ball and telling him to create shit out of thin air when he's not strong enough to be an efficient player that way. That's why he's a settler for jump shots. He gets worn down driving to the rim as much as he does and getting hammered as much as he does so he takes the easy road out quite often. At the very least if you're going to make him handle the ball a lot, put him in the PnR so he's not responsible for breaking down his man, getting past him and getting up a good look at the rim through the help defense. There's a reason the PnR is the most used play in the league. It's because hero ball is very tough to do well and should only be used when needed or if you have elite handles and an ability to hit shots off the dribble consistently which Wiggins doesn't/can't. We put him in the crapiest position possible to become a good all-around player because we're having him focus on the wrong things right now.
worldK wrote:Q, to your point. Wiggins could easily average more than 2 assists per game if his frequent targets (rubio and prince) made more shots or shoot it instead of swinging the ball when they had a shot. Wiggins is no playmaker ala harden but he can make the simple and right pass. He commands so much attention on defense and when he did make that correct pass, its either a miss long two or the guy make another pass when he could have took the shot.
Look, wig has holes in his game. He could definitely rebound more and improve his motor. But to say that he isn't helping much when he isnt scoring efficiently is outrageous. Him simply being on the floor makes things easier for his team mates.
Yes, Bazz, kmart and twons can score. But they are not guys opposing teams will double team. KAt is still a rookie and he is eventually going to be great. But with bazz and kmart(who has sucked this year)? If im the opposing coach, I wont really game plan on them and double them.
In other news, Rubio would average 17 asts if he played with anybody who could shoot.
As for Wiggins helping out when not scoring. Advanced metrics (whether you believe them or not) clearly indicate he is not helping his team when he's not scoring efficiently.
May I ask which players on this team the advance metrics say is helping the team when they are not shooting efficiently?
Look, Wiggins is not a problem. He has weaknesses sure but he every coach in this league will play wiggins even when he is not "scoring efficiently" as the metrics indicate because they believe they have a shot at winning with wig on the floor.
Rubio. Definitely.
I'm not sure where you're going with #2. Wiggins just isn't that good yet using any sort of metric to back it up. I don't think Wiggins would be given the same leash with other teams as he does with the Wolves. The Wolves have to play him and let him learn the ropes and take his lumps. He's a HUGE part of the future. Obviously. I don't have a problem with it.
But put him on the GSW. Or, Spurs. Or, Cavs or Thunder? I'm not sure they're going to go with an inefficient scorer who doesn't do much else nearly as much. Would he play? Of course... but not like here.
Other teams wouldn't run the same bullshit offense we do. They'd actually have a system that would help make Wiggins an efficient player. He's a second year player and forced hero baller on a terrible team this year. That's a terrible situation for efficiency. Leonard was way more raw then Wiggins and look what the Spurs were able to do with him. Put Wiggins on a good team and he probably actually looks like a good player. Instead he's playing with 1 good player in Towns while the rest of the team is average to sub-average and instead of being able to play within a system, he's asked to make plays for himself consistently out of isolation situations when he has a shaky handle. Tell me how that's a good way to develop a player.
You know what those good teams would have done? They would have had him focus on defense and shooting and eventually put him on the ball more when he better developed his body and his handle to be an effective driver and scorer. Instead we're just giving him the ball and telling him to create shit out of thin air when he's not strong enough to be an efficient player that way. That's why he's a settler for jump shots. He gets worn down driving to the rim as much as he does and getting hammered as much as he does so he takes the easy road out quite often. At the very least if you're going to make him handle the ball a lot, put him in the PnR so he's not responsible for breaking down his man, getting past him and getting up a good look at the rim through the help defense. There's a reason the PnR is the most used play in the league. It's because hero ball is very tough to do well and should only be used when needed or if you have elite handles and an ability to hit shots off the dribble consistently which Wiggins doesn't/can't. We put him in the crapiest position possible to become a good all-around player because we're having him focus on the wrong things right now.
I don't disagree with much of that. The Wolves are a mess. And it's ugly iso basketball for the most part.
I just hope we're not letting players (even young players) off the hook because we're worried about it means if it's not the coaching holding them back...
Some guys, no matter how talented they are, just don't have it in them to be the next K. Leonard or D. Green or whomever. The stuff K. Leonard is doing hasn't been done by too many players in the past 70 years. I think it's actually a disservice to him if we think it's only Popovich behind that. Nobody expected him to be a 50% three point shooter... not even the Spurs. You can't just make a player a star just because of the way you develop. Stars transcend the game. And they tend to do it organically.
The elite players in NBA history found ways to improve regardless of coaching and systems. This remains a players league. The players still have a lot of control in how their careers pan out.
