Minnesota Sports Forum

Sjm, I know you are a adelman hater. But to say that he did more damaged than rambis is absurd. (whether you are referring to coaching, developing players or targeting players).

Everyone hated rambis. The management, the players, the fans. They all hated his guts. Love hated him. Big al was no fan of his. Johnny flynn cuss him out repeatedly in his rookie season. And rambis has a 32-132 record. That is the lowest point of the franchise. Watching him and lambier strut around the sidelines like entitled pricks and being way over their heads is downright embarrassing.

A checked out adelman is 10x better than a phil jackson wannabe, sit on his ass the whole game and look entitled but accomplished nothing rambis in terms of coaching.

As far as player development? Come on now, rambis started ryan hollins and darco over love! Refused to play love more than 28 mins until love's 30-30 game forced his hand. It was clear that love on the court was better for us even with his poor d than sitting him for hollins, darco or tolliver.

Rambis had flynn and sessions, 2 good pick and roll pg's. What did he do? refused to run pick and rolls! justifying that the two will be better in the long run, he was dead wrong, he never develop them aside from making them worse!

Rambis tried desperately to develop beasley and darco.Feed them the ball and watch the turn it over. Darco is out of the league and beas cant find a team yet. If rambis is going to justify not playing love because of his d, then how can he justify playing beas? Rambis was incompetent in all levels of developing players. He had no concept on how to play to the strenghts of his players.

Adelaman at the very least knows the strengths of his players and play to it. Heck he used darco well in his first few games until darco completely checked out mentally. Adelman play to love and pek's strength perfectly. He knows how to get the best out of his players. I call that good pl;ayer development.

As far as DW is concerned. The guy is a bust. Kings are looking to trade him now. You can say that gay's arrival affected him but the fact is, DW is a natural stretch 4. No reason why he cant start alongside gay. He is not good enough to play over jason thompson and not good enough to be an effective bench scorer. He is going the way of wes and beas after his rookie contract.

This has become a long post but the rambis era was just an embarrassment for a wolves fan. RAmbis was a complete disaster and has no redeeming factor to say that someone else is worse or more damaging than him. Its just absurd.

I'm just going to say that while most of what Taylor said was true he still shouldn't have said most of it especially talking about Cleveland's future with Love's contract. Saying he regretted not giving him the 5 year deal is fine, but he should have left it alone.

worldK wrote:Sjm, I know you are a adelman hater. But to say that he did more damaged than rambis is absurd. (whether you are referring to coaching, developing players or targeting players).

Everyone hated rambis. The management, the players, the fans. They all hated his guts. Love hated him. Big al was no fan of his. Johnny flynn cuss him out repeatedly in his rookie season. And rambis has a 32-132 record. That is the lowest point of the franchise. Watching him and lambier strut around the sidelines like entitled pricks and being way over their heads is downright embarrassing.

A checked out adelman is 10x better than a phil jackson wannabe, sit on his ass the whole game and look entitled but accomplished nothing rambis in terms of coaching.

As far as player development? Come on now, rambis started ryan hollins and darco over love! Refused to play love more than 28 mins until love's 30-30 game forced his hand. It was clear that love on the court was better for us even with his poor d than sitting him for hollins, darco or tolliver.

Rambis had flynn and sessions, 2 good pick and roll pg's. What did he do? refused to run pick and rolls! justifying that the two will be better in the long run, he was dead wrong, he never develop them aside from making them worse!

Rambis tried desperately to develop beasley and darco.Feed them the ball and watch the turn it over. Darco is out of the league and beas cant find a team yet. If rambis is going to justify not playing love because of his d, then how can he justify playing beas? Rambis was incompetent in all levels of developing players. He had no concept on how to play to the strenghts of his players.

Adelaman at the very least knows the strengths of his players and play to it. Heck he used darco well in his first few games until darco completely checked out mentally. Adelman play to love and pek's strength perfectly. He knows how to get the best out of his players. I call that good pl;ayer development.

As far as DW is concerned. The guy is a bust. Kings are looking to trade him now. You can say that gay's arrival affected him but the fact is, DW is a natural stretch 4. No reason why he cant start alongside gay. He is not good enough to play over jason thompson and not good enough to be an effective bench scorer. He is going the way of wes and beas after his rookie contract.

This has become a long post but the rambis era was just an embarrassment for a wolves fan. RAmbis was a complete disaster and has no redeeming factor to say that someone else is worse or more damaging than him. Its just absurd.

First of all, I don't hate Adelman. I don't even know him. Do I hate the job he did coaching here? Absolutely.

I think he came into a team that enough talent to make the PO's. Then he Rubio got hurt and everything folded up around him. This has nothing to do with what Rambis did before him, although if Love had learned to make more of an effort on D, we might have already made the PO's.

Adelman gave Kahn a list of guys he wanted off the team, and Kahn unfortunately decided to give Adelman everything he wanted. At that point we completely changed the model of building a contending team (regardless of whether it was working or not) to accepting a ceiling of a mediocre bottom seed PO team. The wolves were not ready to fill in role players, because they simply didn't have enough talent at that point. We traded a first to get rid of Wes, we signed Shved because Adelman wanted more ballhandlers, we traded a first for Bud even though he was a one year rental unless we overpaid for him.

Another thing Adelman did was over play guys like Pek and AK47. I remember watching AK playing over 40 minutes a game and the two days later he is on the ahelf with a bad back. Adelman only knew to play to win the game that night. He insisted on giving up our draft picks, and not developing the ones we had already used.

Minny will always be forced to improve through the draft, and when you take that away the team grows stagnant. I am sure Love looked at the wolves and realized there was no way to improve significantly with no cap space left, and no top picks.

Sjm, you stated your case vs adelman. But you still cant make any case that rick was more damaging than rambis which you spew out ion your original post. Im not going to get into it with you with regards to adelman because we have been into it in the past.

The thing is, rambis brought a 32-132 record in 2 seasons. We had no credibility during his time here. No hope for the future, we were a laughing stock of the league who get blown out in games and was unwatchable. There were guys that were brought in recommended by rambis as well and they were far worst than any adelman guys.

Its one thing to hate adelman's performance here. It is another to make an outrageous statement that he brought more damaged to the team than rambis. I cant say it enough, Rambis was a embarrassment to the team and the team sink to new lows with him here in all aspects of the product.

You clearly can't see past your disgust for Rambis. Yes he was a horrible coach, but he didn't change the model of the wolves rebuild. I think I showed the difference in records between the two coaches had more to do with Rubio than anything else. If that wasn't the case, the wolves would have improved from Adelman's first year through his third, and even with spending well over the cap, that didn't happen.

What did happen is that the wolves not only used up all their cap space and picks, but they traded some for veteran role players which should have made the wolves better in the short term. That didn't happen either, which imo shows that Adelman had this team on a downward spiral with no future.

Simply put, Adelman destroyed any chance of this team improving in the future, by gambling on over paid role players, rather than developing our draft picks. This team can't sustain on Adelman's game plan. They have to develop rookies and improve from within.

Unfortunately, the reality is you guys are both right. Arguing about whether Adelman or Rambis hurt us more is kind of like arguing about whether it's worse to get poked with a sharp stick in the right or left eye.

Rambis couldn't make his team play with the passion he showed every time he got on the court, and Adelman was just too tired and preoccupied to do the job. The good news is we now have Flip...a guy who has made the playoffs almost every year he has coached and still has an enormous drive to win without losing sight of the long view.

longstrangetrip wrote:Unfortunately, the reality is you guys are both right. Arguing about whether Adelman or Rambis hurt us more is kind of like arguing about whether it's worse to get poked with a sharp stick in the right or left eye.

Rambis couldn't make his team play with the passion he showed every time he got on the court, and Adelman was just too tired and preoccupied to do the job. The good news is we now have Flip...a guy who has made the playoffs almost every year he has coached and still has an enormous drive to win without losing sight of the long view.

I don't understand the notion that Adleman was somehow the GM in all of this? Did he have influence? Absolutely. But it's not like he had any kind of leverage with these deals. I remember the team back when Adleman first took over were full of idiots who made dumb play after dumb play (Martell Webster I'm looking at you).

How much did our "development" really hurt by Adelmans so called moves? Are we really better if we hung onto Wes?

Would we be better if Dwill was our Love replacement?

Would we still want Malcom Lee or Wayne Ellington?

I know you didn't like the AK move, but remember it was the backup plan when the Wolves lost out on Batum. AK ended up working out great for the Wolves.

Yea we traded for Chase. We could of had Ross. Except we already had Love and Dwill on the roster. And if you remember, Chase was needed for Rubios sake. Wolves had literally nobody who could make a 3 off of Rubios plays. Plus Chase was only in his 3rd year by then, not old by any means.

So where exactly did Adleman kill our development where we would be better off today?

Another note on Adlemans development of players and not giving time to young players. He started Wes pretty much every game and gave him big minutes. People ripped him for playing him so much. Turned out he couldn't play and was shipped off. Getting rid of him was the right move. Having to throw in a first round pick lies squarely on Khan and his negotiating. That part has nothing to do with Adleman

In Cam fashion I'm going to toot my own horn here. It wasn't that long ago that I was the only one who questioned Adelman on the board. Oh how times have changed.

I was never a proponent of Wes', but even I would admit that he had some value defensively, and his shooting could have come around like it is now.

It was no secret when Adelman came in that there was an understanding that he would get what he wanted. At that point we became a "win now" team, whether we had the necessary young talent or not.

Have we already forgotten Adelman playing JJ over Rubio down the stretch? Chase was never anything more than a decent 3pt shooter. His defense was always lacking, and that seemed to be the problem with Adelman in always looking at offense only. Whether it was playing Hummel, Ridnour, JJ or Chase, there were always better options if you considered both sides of the ball. When in doubt, play the younger guy so he can improve, but Adelman did exactly the opposite.

I am not in anyway absolving Kahn in all of this, but Adelman took control the moment he walked in the door.