Minnesota Sports Forum

Camden wrote:

longstrangetrip wrote:

Camden wrote:I'm wondering if some of you would actually throw Dieng into the fire, hope Turiaf stays healthy and then draft for a different position. That's really risky in my opinion.

That would be my strategy, cam. As I pointed out in another post, the Wolves have been a .500 team this year with Pek in the lineup and a .500 team with him hurt and replaced by Turiaf or Dieng. In contrast, in prior years when either Love or Rubio went down, team performance suffered a lot. This tells me that Pek can be, and frankly has been, replaced fairly easily, and his $12 million can be put to better use in pursuing an elite wing.

I wouldn't be upset at going with Dieng as a starter, but I do worry about his offensive ability. Goes up soft a lot and has trouble finishing from time to time. I'm really looking forward to seeing how he plays the rest of the season. Hopefully he shows me something different on offense. He did well the other night scoring a double-double with five blocks.

I'm confused a bit, LST. You're advocating for Pek's $12M to be used for an elite wing, but you're not on board with the Deng discussion? Deng's a two-time All-Star, durable, elite defender and not too shabby on offense either. That's exactly what kind of wing player we need.

If Dieng showed out the rest of the year and did make me think otherwise about his ability on offense, I'd revert back to my Stauskas (or best SG available) pick. Again, if Dieng showed me enough, I'd feel comfortable with: Rubio, Stauskas, Deng, Love, Dieng. And then Blake, Martin, Brewer, DC, Turiaf off the bench.

Would you be comfortable with a Rubio-Martin-Deng-???-Deing lineup if Love leaves?

alexftbl8181 wrote:


Would you be comfortable with a Rubio-Martin-Deng-???-Deing lineup if Love leaves?

If Love leaves, we are in a rebuild mode, and I think we would be looking to tank. At that point, I think Deng would be a more moveable asset to help us accomplish that. Deng would have a much larger group of interested teams, whereas Pek needs a specific fit for his skillset.

"Would you be comfortable with a Rubio-Martin-Deng-???-Deing lineup if Love leaves?"

I'm not comfortable with any lineup of ours that doesn't involve Kevin Love. I can ask you the same question: would you be more comfortable with a Rubio/Martin/Brewer/?/Pekovic lineup? What kind of sense does that make.

And like sjm said above, if Love isn't here, we're in rebuild mode. Meaning Pekovic, Martin, Brewer and Bud all need to be traded for future assets.

What about this 3 team deal:

MIN gets Asik, Terrance Jones, Anthony Morrow
HOU gets Anderson, Jason Smith
NO gets Pek, and picks

We get the defensive C we need, a major upgrade at the backup 4 spot (along with some protection from Love leaving because Jones is still young and has a lot of potential) and a backup SG that can shoot the ball.
Houston gets one of the best stretch 4's in the league to go next to Dwight and a capable backup C. NO gets a perfect fit next to AD who is probably the best player in this deal along with any picks they want outside of our first this year as all other picks would be pretty low firsts or seconds.

This move would allow us to take a bigger risk in the draft on a Levine or Selden because they wouldn't have big roles in year 1 with a capable backup in front of them in Morrow. Use the MLE on a backup PG and end up with:

Ricky/Blake (my ideal guy at this point because of the shooting)
Martin/Morrow/Rookie
Corey/Bud/Bazz
Love/Jones
Asik/Dieng/Ronny

The only real weakness on that team is the SF spot which could greatly benefit from having a legit defensive C protecting Bazz and Bud on the defensive end. We get a major upgrade in the shooting department at multiple positions. We end up with several backups on their rookie deals which keeps the potential alive for this team going forward as contenders. We protect ourselves from a total rebuild if Love leaves because of said youth.

I don't like the trade for Deng because I think Thibodeau ran him into the ground and took several years off his career with how many minutes he forced Deng to play. He's 28 and he moves like he is over 30 already. He's also not the kind of upgrade in the shooting department I think we need from a two way player standpoint. At the very least any SF or SG we get needs to be a 3 and D guy or be a very good ball handler/shot creator because we can't keep signing guys who can't shoot the ball. It is literally killing this franchise with the lack of shooting that is on the roster every year.

Not a fan of Pek for Asik deals. I'd rather acquire Deng. T.Jones doesn't sweeten the pot enough considering he'd be getting 10-15 minutes a night backing up Love.

DC plays 20 minutes a night as Love's "backup". That's a decent chunk of minutes that can affect the outcome of a game. Swapping that out for a more efficient player who grabs more boards and plays better team D could help swing a few more games our way. Jones has the length and bulk to guard a lot of 4's that DC can't handle. I think Deng is being highly overrated. He's never been an efficient scorer and the older he gets, the less he'll be able to do on the defensive end. I don't think the upgrade he would provide at the 3 would be worth the gamble we would be making at the 5 with no cap space to work with and hoping Dieng is starter quality by next year. The draft is deep with 2/3's and very thin at the 5, so we won't be getting any good value there either and we would still have to address the backup PG spot somewhere. There's too many holes on this team to do a straight up swap that clogs the 3 spot even more than it already is. I'd rather get the starter and two bench players over just one starter. It gives us more options to work with this summer. Regardless of the minimal drop off we have seen when Pek is off the court, you're asking for disaster in a year we can't afford it if you are hoping Ronny/Dieng/draft pick can man the 5 all year long on a team that needs to make the playoffs.

DC plays 20 minutes a night because Turiaf is injured and our coach is a dipshit. Those are Dieng's minutes. We go small far too often. Any backup PF on the Wolves shouldn't be getting 20 minutes ever.

Deng has never been an efficient scorer? He's 46% from the floor for his career. Pretty good FT shooter too. His 3P shot is the only inefficient part of Deng's offense. His defense has always been among tops in the league. Luol deserves more love than he gets. Also a huge minutes eater.

If both offers were on the table (Asik, Terrance Jones, Anthony Morrow OR Luol Deng), I'd take the best player in the deal and that's Deng. We can disagree, but that's where I'm at. Pek has more value than Asik and Jones doesn't push the value high enough to my liking since he'd be our backup PF.

I really like this trade Khans. I think it gives us another defensive C, and a solid backup behind Love as well as a competent outside shooter, and doesn't hurt us salary wise. I know Asik has a big payment next season, but it doesn't hit the cap (my understanding), and it also gives us great flexibility if Love leaves. We can opt to not re-sign Asik, and still have Jones to take over at PF.

I respect your opinion, and I hope you will respect mine. Stauskas is great, but he would not fit well on this team. We have enough one way players. Stauskas will not be able to defend at the pro level. Yes, he can shoot the lights out, but I highly doubt he will finish at the rim effectively in the NBA. We need a very athletic player at the 2 or 3 position. Someone who can play AT LEAST adequate on-ball defense, shoot a 3, ball handle, and drive. Yes, it is difficult to find a player at pick #13 who can do that, but that is what we need. Can you imagine having Barea, Budinger, Martin, Stauskas, Shved on this team next year playing the 2/3 positions? I will not even be able to watch. If you decide to play a Love and Pekovic as your PF/C, then you need to surround them with above average on-ball defenders at the 1,2,3 positions. We have only one in Rubio, possibly 2 in Brewer when he decides to hustle and play D rather then awaiting and jumping early on a potential cherry pick. I'd rather look at P.J. Hairston, Zach Lavine, or T.J. Warren and get an athlete on the floor. One who can defend, shoot a 3, and drive. It'd be nice to see a true athlete on our team to take advantage of Rubio's passing abilities. Let's see some alley oops, and a nice 1-2 punch on the defensive end from both guard positions.

I should also add that I think Barea, Martin, Budinger, and Pekovic need to be moved this offseason. A lot of people think LRMAM needs to go, but if we do make the playoffs next year, he will be the one taking on the Durants, Hardens, etc. And I he will do very well at that, as his foot work is impeccable. He is a strong piece for a winning team. He just doesn't fit here because we expect him to do things he shouldn't be asked to do, like score. He is a defensive stopper. Nothing more ... always has been, always will be.

TheFuture wrote:I respect your opinion, and I hope you will respect mine. Stauskas is great, but he would not fit well on this team. We have enough one way players. Stauskas will not be able to defend at the pro level. Yes, he can shoot the lights out, but I highly doubt he will finish at the rim effectively in the NBA. We need a very athletic player at the 2 or 3 position. Someone who can play AT LEAST adequate on-ball defense, shoot a 3, ball handle, and drive. Yes, it is difficult to find a player at pick #13 who can do that, but that is what we need. Can you imagine having Barea, Budinger, Martin, Stauskas, Shved on this team next year playing the 2/3 positions? I will not even be able to watch. If you decide to play a Love and Pekovic as your PF/C, then you need to surround them with above average on-ball defenders at the 1,2,3 positions. We have only one in Rubio, possibly 2 in Brewer when he decides to hustle and play D rather then awaiting and jumping early on a potential cherry pick. I'd rather look at P.J. Hairston, Zach Lavine, or T.J. Warren and get an athlete on the floor. One who can defend, shoot a 3, and drive. It'd be nice to see a true athlete on our team to take advantage of Rubio's passing abilities. Let's see some alley oops, and a nice 1-2 punch on the defensive end from both guard positions.

I should also add that I think Barea, Martin, Budinger, and Pekovic need to be moved this offseason. A lot of people think LRMAM needs to go, but if we do make the playoffs next year, he will be the one taking on the Durants, Hardens, etc. And I he will do very well at that, as his foot work is impeccable. He is a strong piece for a winning team. He just doesn't fit here because we expect him to do things he shouldn't be asked to do, like score. He is a defensive stopper. Nothing more ... always has been, always will be.

I agree we need more two way players, but Stauskas might be the best fit at #13. His D will hurt us, but if paired with a real defensive stopper (sefelosha type), I think his offensive mentality could really help this team. Stauskas would have to put on a few pounds though. I would certainly prefer a more athletic guy, but I don't know that we can get that guy at #13, and expect him to make a difference next season (which is something we need to keep Love).

Moving Budinger and Pek should be our two priorities in the off season. I don't have a problem with JJ if we have a real coach who will take control of him. JJ plays reasonably aggressive D, hustles, and while having a bad year shooting, does provide a spark at times. Hard to criticize him too much with the lack of NBA players currently being deployed around him. What PG is going to look good next to DC, Luc, Hummel, and Bud.

I haven't seen anything from Luc that would qualify him as a defensive stopper. If he has a good matchup against a similar sized guy, he does OK. Luc doesn't show enough quickness to guard quicker SF's, so that leaves him in a small spot. He is easily replaced with a minimum salaried player. If we can move him without throwing out more than a second, I would jump all over it.

Most important for this team, is to start filling our bench with value guys. We always seem to want to spend 4-5 mil on guys that are comparable to half a dozen 2-3 mil/yr players that get signed each off season. We gave a mid first round pick to pickup Bud for one season, and then drastically over paid him the following year. Why give up a first if you are going to over pay him anyway?