Wolves fan commiserate here!
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NAWs issue may be scalability. He really took off as a starter with the increased reps that come with that. We'll see if he can get to a point where he can make an impact when the minutes are lower. It's nice to have him to step in when needed though.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 11:42 amI haven't been as impressed as you about NAW's defense. I think Rudy is the main reason for our defensive success, but I do like NAW and think his defense is above average (but I haven't seen stifling yet except for last playoffs), but I think we both agree that his offensive is pretty unreliable. Since you brought up the comparison, NAW is a team worst -16 for the year, while Shake is plus 11. Shake has more steals than NAW (4 to 2). I agree that Shake doesn't have great lateral mobility, but he does hustle and he is more disciplined and covers ground with his seven foot wingspan while NAW plays a little more out of control. I am happy we have both guys especially for what we are paying them.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 10:21 am Agree with most of your points Abe, although I see a massive difference between Shake and NAW on defense. NAW is an absolute pest on defense and part of the reason we currently have the #1 NBA defense. His offensive struggles are real, but he has made a real impact on the other side.
Shake gives a nice effort on defense, but doesn't quite have the doggedness and lateral mobility as NAW (nor is he assigned the toughest guy to guard).
There is nothing to agree or disagree with since the standard measurement is Defensive Rating, which is how many points per 100 possessions the other team scores. By measuring it per 100 possessions, it eliminates pace of play as a factor. The Wolves have the #1 defensive rating in the league right now, just ahead of the Knicks.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:01 pm I am not sure I agree that the Wolves have the number one defense. Sure, if you go by total points scored. But that rewards teams playing with a slow pace and who play less overtime games. If you go by field goal percentage given up which is how I typically gauge defense, I think Wolves are in a three way tie for sixth place.
Yep wolves are currently number 2 in the NBA in defensive rating according to cleaning the glass (they eliminate garbage time). Defensive rating is the only way to really judge a defense. Now are they having some good shot variance luck? More than likely, the nuggets just had their worst offensive rating in the 2020s but based on the eye test it looks like the wolves defense is elite. Will that continue who knows but at the moment 4 games in it looks fantasticQ-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:19 pmThere is nothing to agree or disagree with since the standard measurement is Defensive Rating, which is how many points per 100 possessions the other team scores. By measuring it per 100 possessions, it eliminates pace of play as a factor. The Wolves have the #1 defensive rating in the league right now, just ahead of the Knicks.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:01 pm I am not sure I agree that the Wolves have the number one defense. Sure, if you go by total points scored. But that rewards teams playing with a slow pace and who play less overtime games. If you go by field goal percentage given up which is how I typically gauge defense, I think Wolves are in a three way tie for sixth place.
Now we can get into the reasons why we're the #1 defense, as we certainly aren't #1 in every sub-component of defense, but I can't think of a more comprehensive defensive impact metric for a team than Defensive Rating.
The real question is how sustainable it is after just four games. We'll find out....
OK, I'll accept your definition. Though I personally use opposing team's FG% as a fairly accurate substitute as I know how to find it quickly and I have historically used this measure and it seems to line up pretty much with the team perceptions as good or bad defenses. However, if you care to post a link to Defensive Rating, I'll check it out.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:19 pmThere is nothing to agree or disagree with since the standard measurement is Defensive Rating, which is how many points per 100 possessions the other team scores. By measuring it per 100 possessions, it eliminates pace of play as a factor. The Wolves have the #1 defensive rating in the league right now, just ahead of the Knicks.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:01 pm I am not sure I agree that the Wolves have the number one defense. Sure, if you go by total points scored. But that rewards teams playing with a slow pace and who play less overtime games. If you go by field goal percentage given up which is how I typically gauge defense, I think Wolves are in a three way tie for sixth place.
Now we can get into the reasons why we're the #1 defense, as we certainly aren't #1 in every sub-component of defense, but I can't think of a more comprehensive defensive impact metric for a team than Defensive Rating.
The real question is how sustainable it is after just four games. We'll find out....
I side with your eye test. There is no doubt in my mind that Denver's issues last night weren't due to random variability of making/missing shots. The defense was elite. Murray had a miserable time getting himself freed up and Jokic had try to do a lot of the scoring himself. Even he struggled at times, getting the ball taken away from him on a couple of attempts.kekgeek wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:23 pmYep wolves are currently number 2 in the NBA in defensive rating according to cleaning the glass (they eliminate garbage time). Defensive rating is the only way to really judge a defense. Now are they having some good shot variance luck? More than likely, the nuggets just had their worst offensive rating in the 2020s but based on the eye test it looks like the wolves defense is elite. Will that continue who knows but at the moment 4 games in it looks fantasticQ-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:19 pmThere is nothing to agree or disagree with since the standard measurement is Defensive Rating, which is how many points per 100 possessions the other team scores. By measuring it per 100 possessions, it eliminates pace of play as a factor. The Wolves have the #1 defensive rating in the league right now, just ahead of the Knicks.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:01 pm I am not sure I agree that the Wolves have the number one defense. Sure, if you go by total points scored. But that rewards teams playing with a slow pace and who play less overtime games. If you go by field goal percentage given up which is how I typically gauge defense, I think Wolves are in a three way tie for sixth place.
Now we can get into the reasons why we're the #1 defense, as we certainly aren't #1 in every sub-component of defense, but I can't think of a more comprehensive defensive impact metric for a team than Defensive Rating.
The real question is how sustainable it is after just four games. We'll find out....
KG, while Opponent FG% is certainly an important defensive metric and one I like myself a lot, it only covers a portion of what makes up a defense. You can be a great Opponent eFG% team, but if you can't get the defensive rebounds, foul too much, and never turn them over, then you will be a mediocre overall defense. Defensive Rating is a comprehensive metric that takes all these factors into consideration.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:41 pmOK, I'll accept your definition. Though I personally use opposing team's FG% as a fairly accurate substitute as I know how to find it quickly and I have historically used this measure and it seems to line up pretty much with the team perceptions as good or bad defenses. However, if you care to post a link to Defensive Rating, I'll check it out.Q-is-here wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:19 pmThere is nothing to agree or disagree with since the standard measurement is Defensive Rating, which is how many points per 100 possessions the other team scores. By measuring it per 100 possessions, it eliminates pace of play as a factor. The Wolves have the #1 defensive rating in the league right now, just ahead of the Knicks.KG4Ever wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 12:01 pm I am not sure I agree that the Wolves have the number one defense. Sure, if you go by total points scored. But that rewards teams playing with a slow pace and who play less overtime games. If you go by field goal percentage given up which is how I typically gauge defense, I think Wolves are in a three way tie for sixth place.
Now we can get into the reasons why we're the #1 defense, as we certainly aren't #1 in every sub-component of defense, but I can't think of a more comprehensive defensive impact metric for a team than Defensive Rating.
The real question is how sustainable it is after just four games. We'll find out....
I have some ideas why we have a better defense:
1. DLO is gone
2. Nowell and maybe some others who weren't good defenders are gone
3. NAW is here and is an above average defender
4. KAT is healthier and his defense looks better
Agreed. Denver scored a lot of points, especially in the 2nd quarter, when KAT forced the issue against multiple defenders and wound up on the floor. And I completely agree with how rarely he properly positions himself for a good catch and shoot 3. And kudos to Shake for taking a charge on one of those type plays. It was a real difference maker when Denver was closing the gap in the 2nd quarter.SameOldNudityDrew wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 4:39 pm Great win. Just got done watching the replay.
I hate to say it, especially after a win, but I am so annoyed at the way KAT plays on offense. He's such an immensely talented jump shooter, yet he so frequently tries to put it on the deck and so often just ends up flailing around recklessly and then is left laying on the floor while the other team plays 5 on 4 against us on the break. And a lot of times when he has shot it from 3 this year, he looks like he's taking deeper shots than he needs to or moving while he shoots it instead of just getting set up at the 3 point line for the catch and shoot. Seriously, if we could manufacture catch-and-shoot 3s for KAT, that's probably our most efficient offense.
There was one play last night when he actually ran up the court a bit quicker and got to the 3 point line just before his teammate found him the ball, which set him up for a 3 that looked automatic. It's also on our ball handlers to get him the ball in his breadbasket when he's there and open.
But yeah, overall, I just really want him to play more in control and let the game come to him.
But yeah, overall, fun game to watch.