Minnesota Sports Forum

It's such a catch 22. They go out and get a great shooter like Korver, but then they have to hide him on defense. Flip had the right idea in trying to acquire as many good 2-way players as possible. It's not easy to do obviously. I don't consider Iggy a two way player, at least not on a consistent basis. 70 million? i wouldn't even consider it.

khans2k5 wrote:The Cavs just need more defense. They clearly don't trust the weapons around Lebron outside of Kyrie to generate an offense so they need a wing defender that can give Lebron rest on the defensive end. He can't do both anymore and they don't trust the offensive players they have to get it done without him so they need defensive help more than the shooters they put around him.

I agree they need more defense. I actually think they have plenty of players to play it although upgrading isn't a bad idea. They have zero draft picks this year but they can obviously try and get some ring chasers maybe to get some help etc.

To me the bigger thing was they just didn't play well enough as a team. I think they can improve in that area quite a bit. They did a lot just in this series. As I mentioned they added some players later in the season and they never really came together and JR missed half the season returning in March from an injury. Liggins played 61 games for this team and finished the season on the Mavs roster. They had 21 total players play a game for this team including these awesome guys: Chris Anderson Bogut, Edy Tavares and the defensive Messiah Larry Saunders. That probably didn't help their offensive flow either. It never felt like they really figured it all out for more than a few games at a time the 2nd half of the season.

I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Q12543 wrote:I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Yep. Rumors about LeBron James leaving Cleveland are lurking...

And it seems like he won't even receive much heat for it... Win while you can.

Shows just how desperate Cleveland was for a title. Get jilted with a big public display... vow to hate him forever... then change course immediately when he throws you a bone and returns home. Then, take it in the shorts again when he leaves a decimated team without much of a future on his way out a second time.

That title though...

Q12543 wrote:I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Why do the Pacers do George for Love? Their next best player is a young Myles Turner. Love doesn't get you in the same ballpark as that Cavs team. I just think that move puts them further away from even an outside chance at a title. I would think they would want young players and assets to rebuild around Turner and set their clock for the post Lebron era.

I think the deal that makes the most sense is Love to the Knicks for Melo. Melo and Lebron can split time at the 4. Melo gives them another shooter and volume scorer that they really need to get Lebron more rest during games. You could argue the Knicks should rebuild around Porzingas, but they can only get out of Rose's deal this summer and have Noah's albatross on the books. I don't think they have the money and assets to do a proper rebuild around Porzingas so Love is at least young, gets them to the playoffs and is on a decent deal.

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The Cavs just need more defense. They clearly don't trust the weapons around Lebron outside of Kyrie to generate an offense so they need a wing defender that can give Lebron rest on the defensive end. He can't do both anymore and they don't trust the offensive players they have to get it done without him so they need defensive help more than the shooters they put around him.

I agree they need more defense. I actually think they have plenty of players to play it although upgrading isn't a bad idea. They have zero draft picks this year but they can obviously try and get some ring chasers maybe to get some help etc.

To me the bigger thing was they just didn't play well enough as a team. I think they can improve in that area quite a bit. They did a lot just in this series. As I mentioned they added some players later in the season and they never really came together and JR missed half the season returning in March from an injury. Liggins played 61 games for this team and finished the season on the Mavs roster. They had 21 total players play a game for this team including these awesome guys: Chris Anderson Bogut, Edy Tavares and the defensive Messiah Larry Saunders. That probably didn't help their offensive flow either. It never felt like they really figured it all out for more than a few games at a time the 2nd half of the season.

Them dumping Liggins for D. Jones was such a terrible move. Liggins would have actually helped in that series. Deron was also a terrible pick up.

TheFuture wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:The Cavs just need more defense. They clearly don't trust the weapons around Lebron outside of Kyrie to generate an offense so they need a wing defender that can give Lebron rest on the defensive end. He can't do both anymore and they don't trust the offensive players they have to get it done without him so they need defensive help more than the shooters they put around him.

I agree they need more defense. I actually think they have plenty of players to play it although upgrading isn't a bad idea. They have zero draft picks this year but they can obviously try and get some ring chasers maybe to get some help etc.

To me the bigger thing was they just didn't play well enough as a team. I think they can improve in that area quite a bit. They did a lot just in this series. As I mentioned they added some players later in the season and they never really came together and JR missed half the season returning in March from an injury. Liggins played 61 games for this team and finished the season on the Mavs roster. They had 21 total players play a game for this team including these awesome guys: Chris Anderson Bogut, Edy Tavares and the defensive Messiah Larry Saunders. That probably didn't help their offensive flow either. It never felt like they really figured it all out for more than a few games at a time the 2nd half of the season.

Them dumping Liggins for D. Jones was such a terrible move. Liggins would have actually helped in that series. Deron was also a terrible pick up.

Williams struggled mightily in the Finals. But he was basically free and played well in the earlier rounds.

2 - 16 fg (1 - 9 3fg) in the Finals.
26 - 48 fg (11 - 22 3fg) in all other rounds.

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Why do the Pacers do George for Love? Their next best player is a young Myles Turner. Love doesn't get you in the same ballpark as that Cavs team. I just think that move puts them further away from even an outside chance at a title. I would think they would want young players and assets to rebuild around Turner and set their clock for the post Lebron era.

I think the deal that makes the most sense is Love to the Knicks for Melo. Melo and Lebron can split time at the 4. Melo gives them another shooter and volume scorer that they really need to get Lebron more rest during games. You could argue the Knicks should rebuild around Porzingas, but they can only get out of Rose's deal this summer and have Noah's albatross on the books. I don't think they have the money and assets to do a proper rebuild around Porzingas so Love is at least young, gets them to the playoffs and is on a decent deal.

I was talking through the idea of PG13 Love deal with a Cavs fan at work today and I said at first I didn't think it would happen. The more I thought and talked it out...the more it made a lot of sense.

Why would the Pacers do it? Well I thought the same things you said. It makes sense to get young assets. The thing is 1 year and a few weeks from now they could lose him for nothing. Love is a lot better than nothing. They could also involve a 3rd team in a deal sending Love to someone who has some sort of assets. Love would probably not be happy about being sent to the Pacers so that could be a problem for someone making that deal.

Cavs getting Paul George makes a ton of sense. They would need to find some decent bigs that are ring chasers to join because moving Love they would have TT and and Frye on their roster that were true bigs. That's it. They would need to add at least one of here functional big to the roster that can play rotation minutes. Is George willing to be 2nd or 3rd banana and sign there long term? I don't know where he is at but it doesn't sound like he is on a be a pacer much longer. They should probably try and get something for him unless they work some amazing magic but that seems unlikely at this point.

If the Pacers decide to blow it up I wish we had a decent asset to give up to get Thad Young but I don't think we do. He is basically on a 1 year deal as he has a player option for just under 14 million next year...ironically it would be pretty similar situation to when we had him last time.

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Why do the Pacers do George for Love? Their next best player is a young Myles Turner. Love doesn't get you in the same ballpark as that Cavs team. I just think that move puts them further away from even an outside chance at a title. I would think they would want young players and assets to rebuild around Turner and set their clock for the post Lebron era.

I think the deal that makes the most sense is Love to the Knicks for Melo. Melo and Lebron can split time at the 4. Melo gives them another shooter and volume scorer that they really need to get Lebron more rest during games. You could argue the Knicks should rebuild around Porzingas, but they can only get out of Rose's deal this summer and have Noah's albatross on the books. I don't think they have the money and assets to do a proper rebuild around Porzingas so Love is at least young, gets them to the playoffs and is on a decent deal.

I was talking through the idea of PG13 Love deal with a Cavs fan at work today and I said at first I didn't think it would happen. The more I thought and talked it out...the more it made a lot of sense.

Why would the Pacers do it? Well I thought the same things you said. It makes sense to get young assets. The thing is 1 year and a few weeks from now they could lose him for nothing. Love is a lot better than nothing. They could also involve a 3rd team in a deal sending Love to someone who has some sort of assets. Love would probably not be happy about being sent to the Pacers so that could be a problem for someone making that deal.

Cavs getting Paul George makes a ton of sense. They would need to find some decent bigs that are ring chasers to join because moving Love they would have TT and and Frye on their roster that were true bigs. That's it. They would need to add at least one of here functional big to the roster that can play rotation minutes. Is George willing to be 2nd or 3rd banana and sign there long term? I don't know where he is at but it doesn't sound like he is on a be a pacer much longer. They should probably try and get something for him unless they work some amazing magic but that seems unlikely at this point.

If the Pacers decide to blow it up I wish we had a decent asset to give up to get Thad Young but I don't think we do. He is basically on a 1 year deal as he has a player option for just under 14 million next year...ironically it would be pretty similar situation to when we had him last time.

Here is the thing though for the Pacers if they do the deal they are stuck in no man's land for a couple of years not terrible to get a great pick and not good enough to get a better than 7 seed in the playoffs.

It is the argument that will always come up is it better to be terrible or a middle borderline playoff team. Yes George value might be low because of the threat to leave but what would you rather have. Something like smart and Jaylen Brown and be bad next year but high pick if the Celtics strike out on Griffen and Hayward. Or rather have love and be in that 10-16 pick range. Or would you rather just lose George for nothing and do a complete rebuild with a high pick.

kekgeek1 wrote:

monsterpile wrote:

khans2k5 wrote:

Q12543 wrote:I like the idea someone else floated of trying to trade Kevin Love for Paul George. Cleveland is the type of team that probably doesn't give a damn about his upcoming free agency since every season is about trying to win a title, salary cap and contract issues be-damned.

Why do the Pacers do George for Love? Their next best player is a young Myles Turner. Love doesn't get you in the same ballpark as that Cavs team. I just think that move puts them further away from even an outside chance at a title. I would think they would want young players and assets to rebuild around Turner and set their clock for the post Lebron era.

I think the deal that makes the most sense is Love to the Knicks for Melo. Melo and Lebron can split time at the 4. Melo gives them another shooter and volume scorer that they really need to get Lebron more rest during games. You could argue the Knicks should rebuild around Porzingas, but they can only get out of Rose's deal this summer and have Noah's albatross on the books. I don't think they have the money and assets to do a proper rebuild around Porzingas so Love is at least young, gets them to the playoffs and is on a decent deal.

I was talking through the idea of PG13 Love deal with a Cavs fan at work today and I said at first I didn't think it would happen. The more I thought and talked it out...the more it made a lot of sense.

Why would the Pacers do it? Well I thought the same things you said. It makes sense to get young assets. The thing is 1 year and a few weeks from now they could lose him for nothing. Love is a lot better than nothing. They could also involve a 3rd team in a deal sending Love to someone who has some sort of assets. Love would probably not be happy about being sent to the Pacers so that could be a problem for someone making that deal.

Cavs getting Paul George makes a ton of sense. They would need to find some decent bigs that are ring chasers to join because moving Love they would have TT and and Frye on their roster that were true bigs. That's it. They would need to add at least one of here functional big to the roster that can play rotation minutes. Is George willing to be 2nd or 3rd banana and sign there long term? I don't know where he is at but it doesn't sound like he is on a be a pacer much longer. They should probably try and get something for him unless they work some amazing magic but that seems unlikely at this point.

If the Pacers decide to blow it up I wish we had a decent asset to give up to get Thad Young but I don't think we do. He is basically on a 1 year deal as he has a player option for just under 14 million next year...ironically it would be pretty similar situation to when we had him last time.

Here is the thing though for the Pacers if they do the deal they are stuck in no man's land for a couple of years not terrible to get a great pick and not good enough to get a better than 7 seed in the playoffs.

It is the argument that will always come up is it better to be terrible or a middle borderline playoff team. Yes George value might be low because of the threat to leave but what would you rather have. Something like smart and Jaylen Brown and be bad next year but high pick if the Celtics strike out on Griffen and Hayward. Or rather have love and be in that 10-16 pick range. Or would you rather just lose George for nothing and do a complete rebuild with a high pick.

I don't disagree with what you are saying. Will alive and the rest of that roster be any good? Idk like said a 3rd team makes more sense. I wonder if the Blazers would be interested in Love. The problem is we have no clue what the direction of the Pacers is. That's probably partly why George is considering getting out of there. What will Pritchard do? They have some moveable pieces and some cap room. He is gonna have to really do a hell of a sell job not only to George's but likely first to some FA.

Also FWIW based on what I have heard on a couple podcasts and read I'm not sure the Celtics would offer Jaylen Brown in any of these deals that are suggested for George or Butler etc. They are said to be very high on him.